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Wilson! January 18th 10:40 AM

Sopa pipia
 
i know this isn't "supposed" to be a political website, BUT this is something that could have a serious impact on the way we communicate via the internet. please spend 10 minutes checking them out, and sign the petition to stop our government from censoring the internet.



Millions of Americans oppose SOPA and PIPA because these bills would censor the Internet and slow economic growth in the U.S.

Two bills before Congress, known as the Protect IP Act (PIPA) in the Senate and the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA) in the House, would censor the Web and impose harmful regulations on American business. Millions of Internet users and entrepreneurs already oppose SOPA and PIPA.

The Senate will begin voting on January 24th. Please let them know how you feel. Sign this petition urging Congress to vote NO on PIPA and SOPA before it is too late.


https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/ <~~~~~~~~ go here, sign petition.

Samir January 18th 11:24 AM

I actually don't opposed this bill because it protects the copyrights and intellectual property rights of people like myself. Theft of these rights for years is what has prompted the creation of this bill since those that should have been enforcing these rights haven't taken the correct action. So the lobbying money has been turned to congress. And here we are.

The problem is that the bill is a really harsh reaction to the theft of years past and puts steep penalties in place that are sometimes out-of-line with the offense. I don't see this bill passing in its current form, but a milder more fair form would be important for content creators like me.

I have a current infringement issue with a local magazine. I'd rather be creating content than having to fight to protect it.

Samir January 18th 11:26 AM

And on what I thought was going to be the topic, I love the Sopa Pia that you can get at Rosies! I'm not supposed to eat them, and for good reason because it's the few times that I've messed myself up by having too high blood sugar. But they are soooo goooood, especially when warm with honey. Yum! :D

Beckham January 18th 12:04 PM

The only downside is that the bill, as it is, is that it could shut down this website if the government wished. I don't think you (or anyone here) would like that, Samir.

Samir January 18th 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beckham (Post 60346)
The only downside is that the bill, as it is, is that it could shut down this website if the government wished. I don't think you (or anyone here) would like that, Samir.

Well, it wouldn't be able to shut down this website because there's no infringement going on here.

For that clause, I think the hard part of that is going to be implementation. The Internet is too rebellious to ever be controlled like that. Besides, the only people that would have that pointed at them are those that are repeat offenders. And personally, I'd like to see sites like that shut down.

This caused a big hoo-ha on the Internet a few months ago on all the photography web sites and basically has split the Internet over this issue. Divide and conquer at work? Who knows. I know this much, the battle for control of the Internet is a full-out war right now. Because that much power could effectively rule the civilized world.

Wilson! January 18th 12:51 PM

they are even talking about shutting craigslist and Ebay down.
this is from craigslist.org
Quote:

Congress needs to hear from you, or these dangerous bills will pass - they have tremendous lobbying dollars behind them, from corporations experts say are attempting to prop up outdated, anti-consumer business models at the expense of the very fabric of the Internet -- recklessly unleashing a tsunami of take-down notices and litigation, and a Pandora's jar of "chilling effects" and other unintended (or perhaps intended?) consequences.

Don't believe it? Monster Cable has labeled craigslist a "rogue site," earmarked for blacklisting and full-takedown under PIPA -- resale of stereo cables by CL users reduces Monster 's new cable sales. (reddit).

There is still time to be heard. Congress is starting to backpedal on this job-killing, anti-American nonsense, and the Obama administration has weighed in against these bills as drafted, but SOPA/PIPA cannot be fixed or revised -- they must be killed altogether.

Sen Darrell Issa (R-CA) and Rep Ron Wyden (D-OR) are championing an alternative to SOPA/PIPA called Online Protection and Enforcement of Digital Trade Act (OPEN) that addresses foreign sites dedicated to piracy, without disrupting basic Internet protocols, or threatening mainstream US sites like craigslist.

Tim O'Reilly, a publisher who is himself subject to piracy, asks whether piracy is even a problem, and whether there is even a legitimate need for any of these bills.

Samir January 18th 01:25 PM

I'm sure that instead of Monster blacklisting craigslist for 'resale of stereo cables by CL', they're actually targeting all the scams that craigslist allows to continue without any moderation by them. And those do affect legitimate sales and business.

I think what a lot of people don't understand is that there is a bunch of money on both sides of the table and misinformation all over the place. If craigslist has to moderate their posts, their expenses go up exponentially. If Monster has to compete with inferior fake products being sold on craigslist and ebay, they lose the brand that they've already spent time and money building.

The thing is, the law has always been on the side of Monster. They've filed patents, copyrights, and trademarks. And while it the law will take action when an infringement has been brought to its attention, the number of infringements has grown an order of magnitude. Not one a week like it was originally designed, but thousands an hour. And the mediums that allow these infringements to happen are actually profiting from not regulating it, hence increasing the problem while making money doing it. That's what this bill is trying to address in a more forceful way since 'asking them nicely' hasn't worked. And I can't blame them for that. Enough is enough.

Wilson! January 18th 01:36 PM

agreed, BUT this gives the government and private business the power to censor the internet, and does away with due process.

ray January 18th 01:42 PM

The way the law is loosely written though states that if someone on here even posts a link to a site that has any copyright infringement then this site can be shut down with a court order

dragginbody87 January 18th 01:43 PM

It's most likely dead in the water. Rubio has withdrawn his support after he saw the issues, and he was a co-sponsor.

Battle for more liberty: won
War for more liberty: still ongoing

Beckham January 18th 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayman (Post 60366)
The way the law is loosely written though states that if someone on here even posts a link to a site that has any copyright infringement then this site can be shut down with a court order

This.

dragginbody87 January 18th 01:51 PM

Some libs not happy they don't get to control you:

Quote:

It is an irresponsible response and a disservice to people who rely on them for information and use their services. It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today. Itís a dangerous and troubling development when the platforms that serve as gateways to information intentionally skew the facts to incite their users in order to further their corporate interests.
http://www.unitedliberty.org/article...ng-their-power

Samir January 18th 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson! (Post 60365)
agreed, BUT this gives the government and private business the power to censor the internet, and does away with due process.

That's the parts of the bill that are problematic.

The current system is obviously not working to protect the rights of everyone. Part of that process is that 'due process' is being used as a stalling pattern for third-parties profiting from infringement.

I've been on the other side of this where my hard work has been used for someone else's gain. And then when I brought it up, they basically spit in my face. You know how mad that makes someone? Mad enough to throw millions into a bill for revenge, that's how mad.

Even if this bill is defeated, it won't be the end of this. Fighting isn't going to solve this. The core issues need to be addressed by both sides and a solution needs to be found that way. Not by trying to sway the mass public to give enough 'weight' to one side or the other.

Smugmug just released this:
http://news.smugmug.com/2012/01/18/s...sopa-and-pipa/

What's silly is that they're telling photographers who would get better IP protection from this bill to vote against it. What's worse, is that they're falling for it.

Samir January 18th 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayman (Post 60366)
The way the law is loosely written though states that if someone on here even posts a link to a site that has any copyright infringement then this site can be shut down with a court order

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beckham (Post 60370)
This.

It had to be written this way because the profiting sites wouldn't take it seriously otherwise. How many views a day does Youtube have from infringing material? Probably more than 10%. How much did they make last year? Did they give 10% of that to these companies in royalties? So the companies that created the content are just supposed to keep 'asking' youtube to comply with the law with no other recourse?

I've been on the side where my work was stolen. It's not a pleasant feeling to know that something you worked hard to create can be taken by someone else to make a profit for themselves without even acknowledging that you exist or paying any sort of royalties. It makes you just want to stop working, or kick the beegees out of them. And the IP holders haven't stopped working, so where do you think they are? They're really, really angry and are taking action in a major way.

This bill isn't some sort of attack, it's a retaliation to an attack that was made on them first. Piracy has always been a problem, but the Internet has made it easier to be a problem. Companies that have profited from it are the real target here. Even a company that accidentally profits.

Beckham January 18th 02:53 PM

Yeah.. I wouldn't say they're all lobbying for intellectual rights and copyrights.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...05/10082416208

Samir January 18th 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beckham (Post 60378)
Yeah.. I wouldn't say they're all lobbying for intellectual rights and copyrights.

Have you read the bill? I'd start there to learn the truth. All these websites are spinning whatever they can to get traffic out of the situation. It's just another 'hot news' item for them to capitalize on.

dragginbody87 January 18th 03:25 PM

Any time Washington feels like they have to "do something", bend over and grab your ankles. They can't even figure out how to make the Congressional gift shop run a profit. I have zero faith that they can ever solve any issue, much less a complex issue like this one.

ray January 18th 03:27 PM

Samir, while I under where your arguments are coming from, a lot of this just stems from distrust of government and their crappy wording and ambiguity when drafting laws.

They leave a lot of details open for abuses.

Even if some of them are somewhat exaggerated by opponents of the law they are still matters of semantics that need to be addressed to prevent abuse.

ray January 18th 03:39 PM

And just to take a little edge off the thread...

http://scenicpaintingtours.com/wp-co...Sopapillas.jpg

SOPAPILLAS!


It almost works with the SOPA PIPA thing.

Samir January 18th 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragginbody87 (Post 60380)
Any time Washington feels like they have to "do something", bend over and grab your ankles. They can't even figure out how to make the Congressional gift shop run a profit. I have zero faith that they can ever solve any issue, much less a complex issue like this one.

There's a lot of things here that run very, very well. Third world is truly messed up, and it makes you thank the stars you live in the first world.

That being said, the heart of the issue isn't really complex--don't infringe IP rights without proper compensation. The problem is that people want this stuff for free, so there's pressure to make that happen one way or another. So the opposition just stepped it up to make sure it doesn't happen, one way or another. And the only reason things got this bad in the first place is the money and power that comes with all this. Once people have these, they don't want to let go of them at any cost.
Quote:

Originally Posted by rayman (Post 60381)
Samir, while I under where your arguments are coming from, a lot of this just stems from distrust of government and their crappy wording and ambiguity when drafting laws.

They leave a lot of details open for abuses.

Even if some of them are somewhat exaggerated by opponents of the law they are still matters of semantics that need to be addressed to prevent abuse.

So how ambiguous are the copyright laws? They're straightforward and yet they are not getting enforced correctly. Why? Because of the loopholes of the legal system that allows people to abuse the system itself. And we all know changing the system is next to impossible, so the next best thing will be a bandaid--an all-encompassing bandaid that has similar clauses that could be abused.

With all the fuss over this bill, I don't think anything will be passed--and I think they knew that. There's no way to know exactly how far you can go with people, so go all out and then take out what you need to pass. This way, you don't give up anything you didn't have to. I think this is the overall strategy being employed. And all the rights groups and websites are all just pawns in the whole scheme, lol. It's actually pretty brilliant when I look at it from this perspective.

And while HCS is not a political website, topics nearline or important to the members are always welcome. :) Copyright infringement and IP rights is one that's close to a lot of us that produce professional creative works.


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