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Old November 28th   #21
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Quote:
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But then if they're all red, they're BMW z4 taillights.
That's not a bad thing.
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Old November 29th   #22
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That's not a bad thing.
On a BMW.
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Old November 29th   #23
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Comparison of size for a few cars. I didn't realize this thing was so small!

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Old November 29th   #24
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I think this car will look really good with a handful of tasteful mods.

Lowered, wheels, tint the tail lights ALL red (I HATE when manufacturers do those ugly "ricer" looking tail lights), etc.
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Old November 29th   #25
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Small and nible. I like that. It will be interesting to see what the aftermarket will develop for it. I guess I'll find out at SEMA next year.
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Old November 29th   #26
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They messed up the body line, the concept had sharp straight lines kinda like a 335i and its making the production car lines look terrible in that comparison. The roof line looked better in the concept too.
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Old November 29th   #27
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They messed up the body line, the concept had sharp straight lines kinda like a 335i and its making the production car lines look terrible in that comparison. The roof line looked better in the concept too.
I think you've hit the nail on the head as to why the production car is missing a lot of the concept's allure.
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Old January 27th   #28
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Oh God... I want one so bad now. Whichever is cheaper (BRZ or FRS), I will be getting.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/toyota/gt-86/road-test/driven

Quote:
We first drove Toyota's GT 86 on a racetrack in Japan, but that was inconclusive, as we never got out of third gear. Now we have a better picture, a picture that extends all the way to fourth, fifth and even sixth gears. Lucky us.

And we're closer to home now as well, at the Jarama racetrack near Madrid. Still a closed circuit though, so still no real road driving impressions which is frustrating, but if this thing disappoints on the road I'm prepared to munch on important bits of my own anatomy. Because it's really, really good.

So how different is it to its twin sister, the Subaru BRZ? I spent a whole day in the BRZ at Subaru's test track late last year, so this is where you expect me to say no, to say there are small but definable differences between the Subaru and Toyota. Possibly while scratching my chin and looking thoughtful. But there aren't.

Well, there are supposed to be. Toyota's chief engineer on the GT 86, Tetsuya Tada-san tells me there are tiny changes in the spring and damper settings, and in a chin-scratching phase while on track I thought the GT felt marginally softer. But that could simply have been down to the fact the tyres and brakes were cooked after some Swiss hotfoot had been pummelling it five minutes earlier.

In essence they're identical, and identically excellent. (The BRZ and the GT86) The GT 86 is light on its feet, not dainty exactly, but super accurate and so well balanced. I know it's not especially relevant, but the ease with which this thing lets go at the back end is so refreshing, and even when not arsing about it's just a joyful thing.

Tada-san told me there were three key elements to the car for him, things he (together with his opposite number at Subaru, Toshio Masuda) had to fight for tooth and nail. One was to steer clear of turbocharging, the second was that it should be rear-wheel drive and the final one was to use narrow tyres. I love that. And it's not just that the 215/45 R17's aren't oversized, it's that they're not a sports tyre either. They're Michelin Primacys for heaven's sake - as fitted to the Prius.

So they flex a bit, squeal a lot and aren't too grippy. Tada-san is emphatic that lap times don't matter here, what matters is if the driver gets out with a smile on his face. I am in complete agreement. Yes, it's nice to boast to your mates that your car beats theirs around the ‘Ring, but wouldn't you rather drive a road car that's actually been set-up to drive properly on the road, not the track? I would.

Toyota is maintaining the façade that these are still prototypes, but Tada-san told me that just applies to the interior fixtures and fittings and that the dynamics are finalised. Great, because off the top of my head I can't think of any car that handles more sweetly than this. And it's not slow either. On the main straight at Jarama it hit an indicated 125mph and that flat four engine, red-lined at 7,500rpm, pulls with gusto at the top end. Bit limp lower down, but that's a small price to pay. Great gearbox and lovely, lovely brakes, too.

The price isn't yet finalised due to the yen exchange rate, but Toyota is homing in on £25,000 as the target. Rivals are cited as the Scirocco and Peugeot RCZ, but in truth neither can hold a candle to the GT 86 on the road. Enjoy driving? Then this contest boils down to a battle between this and the Subaru - and you'll make your choice on grounds of badge, dealer location, price and visual tweakery. Me? I'd have the Subaru - the brand is that wee bit cooler - but honestly, this goes down as the best Toyota I've ever driven, and one of the best driving sports cars of the last decade. It's here in June. You know what to do.

Ollie Marriage

The numbers:
1998cc, Flat four, 200bhp, 151lb ft, c160g/km, c42mpg, c6.8secs, c145mph, 1220kg

The cost:
£25,000

The Verdict:
We love the Subaru BRZ. Now we love the Toyota GT 86. One of the very best sports cars around today.
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Old January 27th   #29
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25,000.00 GBP = 39,337.21 USD

Is it a $40,000 car?
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Old January 27th   #30
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No.. in Europe it may be?

Here the base price is supposed to be $22-24k.
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Old January 27th   #31
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That sounds better. I wonder how car companies offer it at a similar price across multiple exchange rates. I guess they just eat the losses.
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Old January 27th   #32
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The FR-S is expected to be between 22-25K and the BRZ is supposed to be 27K+

Allegedly.
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Old January 27th   #33
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I am sad there won't be a turbocharged version. Looks like the Genesis will have this licked until they decide to put out a turbo variant. Hopefully subbie will decide to put out a STi version of it with fatter tires, and about 50-60 more whp. Though if it really does weigh nearly 2700 lbs its quite heavy for the size of the thing.

My Eclipse is about the same size as the genesis, maybe a bit smaller and the AWD versions only weigh in around 2800. If I got a new BRZ I'd have to put it on a diet as soon as it hit the driveway.

Last edited by Tanro; January 27th at 10:32 PM.
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Old January 27th   #34
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from what we were told in the new model update, don't look for the engine currently in the BRZ to get forced induction. the reciprocating assembly will not handle boost. powdered rods, short piston skirts, and super thin low friction rings don't like boost. the engine is also an under-square engine (bore smaller than stoke), something usually reserved for a diesel. they "claim" to have seen 300hp with just tuning (has variable timing on all 4 cams), but we'll have to wait and see how it does in the real word. the engine layout is quite a bit different than any other Suby out there. the intake is feed from the front instead of rear, the alt and a/c are in different locations, and i don't see a p/s pump (guessing they went electric like the 2012 Impreza). they could do the 2.5T from the Legacy, but that would mount the turbo REALLY close to the ground (2010 up Legacy has the turbo mounted under the engine).
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Old January 27th   #35
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the firewall is in the location where Sub normally mounts the turbo. the engine in this car sit something like 4" lower and 6" rearward of the normal Suby engine mounting location


5 minute edit rule got me.. this was supposed to be in the first post...
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Old January 28th   #36
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Pistons and Rods can allways be changed to a design that will handle boost better.

And if not, I suppose the Genesis will just be more my cup o tea.

Last edited by Tanro; January 28th at 01:14 AM.
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Old January 28th   #37
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Oh God... I want one so bad now. Whichever is cheaper (BRZ or FRS), I will be getting.
Reminds me a lot of the characteristics of a Miata. And it's a hardtop too.
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No.. in Europe it may be?

Here the base price is supposed to be $22-24k.
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That sounds better. I wonder how car companies offer it at a similar price across multiple exchange rates. I guess they just eat the losses.
A lot of times the prices stay the same range, even with the exchange rate. My uncle who lives in London told me my Boxster would have been 48k GBP there vs 48k USD here. That's a lot more for the same car, but who knows how much better quality it would be. We tend to get the lower end of every company's product. I saw this a lot with the LG products in Korea. Nothing there was made in Mexico...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanro View Post
I am sad there won't be a turbocharged version. Looks like the Genesis will have this licked until they decide to put out a turbo variant. Hopefully subbie will decide to put out a STi version of it with fatter tires, and about 50-60 more whp. Though if it really does weigh nearly 2700 lbs its quite heavy for the size of the thing.

My Eclipse is about the same size as the genesis, maybe a bit smaller and the AWD versions only weigh in around 2800. If I got a new BRZ I'd have to put it on a diet as soon as it hit the driveway.
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from what we were told in the new model update, don't look for the engine currently in the BRZ to get forced induction. the reciprocating assembly will not handle boost. powdered rods, short piston skirts, and super thin low friction rings don't like boost. the engine is also an under-square engine (bore smaller than stoke), something usually reserved for a diesel. they "claim" to have seen 300hp with just tuning (has variable timing on all 4 cams), but we'll have to wait and see how it does in the real word. the engine layout is quite a bit different than any other Suby out there. the intake is feed from the front instead of rear, the alt and a/c are in different locations, and i don't see a p/s pump (guessing they went electric like the 2012 Impreza). they could do the 2.5T from the Legacy, but that would mount the turbo REALLY close to the ground (2010 up Legacy has the turbo mounted under the engine).
Interesting that there won't be any room for boost. I think the aftermarket companies will have to figure that one out.
Quote:
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the firewall is in the location where Sub normally mounts the turbo. the engine in this car sit something like 4" lower and 6" rearward of the normal Suby engine mounting location


5 minute edit rule got me.. this was supposed to be in the first post...
All good on the edit. I always keep previewing my post until I'm set, and still I forget sometimes.
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Originally Posted by Tanro View Post
Pistons and Rods can allways be changed to a design that will handle boost better.

And if not, I suppose the Genesis will just be more my cup o tea.
But would you really want to go into an engine like this? I'm sure it's going to be ultra-reliable if both Subaru and Toyota are on the casing. And I wouldn't want to ruin that over 60whp.
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Old January 28th   #38
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There's more to it than just the pistons and rods. This engine has varitable timing on all 4 cams, the cam phasers require 0w20 motor oil to operate, 0w20 oil in a turbo engine is a no no. The viscosity is so low that it cannot retain a film between metal surfaces under high cylinder pressure, you end up with metal to metal contact, and its so thin it blows past the seals in the turbo. They will have to basically come up with a completely different engine of they want to turbo this car.
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Old January 28th   #39
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If I were to build it, it would be going for much more than +60 whp. I am saying the OEM could very easily changed the rods/pistons/crank to fit inside the same block and handle boost.

As for the cam phasers. The 06 Evo had MIVEC, mitsubishi's version of variable valve timing. Now I am sure there is a way to make vvt/vct turbo friendly.
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Old January 28th   #40
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everyone is fighting for .5 mpg these days, a thin viscosity oil, low friction rings, lightweight reciprocating assembly help this. the engine lay out doesn't work for forced induction in the normal subaru manner. i'm not saying STi won't come up with something, but i wouldn't hold my breath. if they get the power up to 260hp in the STi version with a N/A 2.5L version of this engine, i don't think they will push it any higher. 260hp in a 2700lb car will be as quicker than a 300hp car that weighs 3500lb, and feel much more nimble. 260hp in a stock car the size of a Miata will be pretty impressive.
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Last edited by Wilson!; January 28th at 05:54 PM.
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