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Old November 29th   #1
dragginbody87
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Two Turkeys on Thanksgiving Wrecking their Corvettes in The Woodlands

http://youtu.be/kzlg3oQMze4

Video of News Coverage from Fox 26 Houston
http://youtu.be/dhwgF7ys-RU

Video of News Coverage from ABC 13 Houston
http://youtu.be/5U8i4OO7XsU

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/28/t...rvette-owners/

http://jalopnik.com/5862633/identica...drag-race-fail

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/couri...d25ab9d2d.html
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Old November 29th   #2
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That area has way more money than brains, that's for sure.

Just found out that the guy that took the video is a girl I used to date's cousin.

He's been offered cash for the video from people to put it on TV.
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Old November 29th   #3
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That area has way more money than brains, that's for sure.
You say that like you've never done anything like this before.
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He's been offered cash for the video from people to put it on TV.
Profiting off someone else's misfortune is something that 'cameras for everyone' has produced. People post videos of people being hurt, harmed, or worse, and then other people watch these videos and further chastise the people in them. Classic 'kicking someone when they're down'. It's commonplace now, but times used to be different.

Back in the day when you witnessed something like this, you were in shock and stopped with sympathy and compassion to see if everyone was alright. Not taping it and then rushing home to post it online to turn the attention on yourself as some sort of spokesperson for what should and shouldn't be done. Bad form.

And the funny thing is, because he posted the video on youtube.com, he granted them full rights to the video the second he uploaded it. Youtube can sell the video and undercut his price if they want without paying him a dime.

Just as there's a responsibility when driving a car and the ability to wreck lives, there is that same responsibility when you're behind a camera and you film something of this nature. And it's just as important to understand the consequences of publishing media like this. As a driver, it's bad enough when your baby is wrecked. That hurts enough. But to then possibly have criminal charges filed against you, possibly lose your job, or worse--because of one person who is trying to profit off your loss. That's unnecessary.

I have video of the late Rich Shaffer as he ran the Crow Mountain Hillclimb, and the fatal crash that ultimately took his life. That video would have been worth quite a bit of money to the media if I would have released it. The first thing I did was ask the family what they wanted. They did not want anyone to see the video. And that's exactly what happened...because that's the right thing to do.
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Old November 29th   #4
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You say that like you've never done anything like this before.
I haven't raced in a populated area (especially with people walking and riding bikes) and I also haven't wrecked while racing. So no, I haven't done this before.

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Profiting off someone else's misfortune is something that 'cameras for everyone' has produced. People post videos of people being hurt, harmed, or worse, and then other people watch these videos and further chastise the people in them. Classic 'kicking someone when they're down'. It's commonplace now, but times used to be different.

Back in the day when you witnessed something like this, you were in shock and stopped with sympathy and compassion to see if everyone was alright. Not taping it and then rushing home to post it online to turn the attention on yourself as some sort of spokesperson for what should and shouldn't be done. Bad form.

And the funny thing is, because he posted the video on youtube.com, he granted them full rights to the video the second he uploaded it. Youtube can sell the video and undercut his price if they want without paying him a dime.

Just as there's a responsibility when driving a car and the ability to wreck lives, there is that same responsibility when you're behind a camera and you film something of this nature. And it's just as important to understand the consequences of publishing media like this. As a driver, it's bad enough when your baby is wrecked. That hurts enough. But to then possibly have criminal charges filed against you, possibly lose your job, or worse--because of one person who is trying to profit off your loss. That's unnecessary.

I have video of the late Rich Shaffer as he ran the Crow Mountain Hillclimb, and the fatal crash that ultimately took his life. That video would have been worth quite a bit of money to the media if I would have released it. The first thing I did was ask the family what they wanted. They did not want anyone to see the video. And that's exactly what happened...because that's the right thing to do.
The difference is that these guys were breaking the law. They actually have warrants out for their arrest as we speak (if they haven't been caught yet). A video of someone dying while doing a sanctioned event and someone getting hurt while breaking the law are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Also, the guy who video taped it (and others) did stop to see if they were ok.
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Old November 29th   #5
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I haven't raced in a populated area (especially with people walking and riding bikes) and I also haven't wrecked while racing. So no, I haven't done this before.
I disagree. I'm going to leave it at that.
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The difference is that these guys were breaking the law. They actually have warrants out for their arrest as we speak (if they haven't been caught yet). A video of someone dying while doing a sanctioned event and someone getting hurt while breaking the law are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Also, the guy who video taped it (and others) did stop to see if they were ok.
No difference when the purpose of posting the video is to kick someone when they're down for personal gain. You know how many videos are out there of local illegal street racing and drifting? That's breaking the law too, but no one is using that as a soapbox.

It would be interesting to see if the person taping the race showed it to the drivers when he stopped and checked on them. And if he let them know he was posting it online. Or even asked if that's okay. My guess is probably not. Not something you do to someone who's already upset if you're a decent person.

Ask Sean how it feels when someone does this to you. He had an unfortunate incident at an autocross. He was already mad enough that it happened, and really didn't need the people with camera phones posting pics of it on Facebook to remind him of what happened. I asked him what he wanted from me and he said he wanted no pictures. And that's what he got. I was just happy to see him okay.
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Old November 30th   #6
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No difference when the purpose of posting the video is to kick someone when they're down for personal gain. You know how many videos are out there of local illegal street racing and drifting? That's breaking the law too, but no one is using that as a soapbox.
Who used this video as a soapbox? The guy who took the video actually is a car guy who used to race at the local tracks in Houston. He said that was stunned that two older guys would be so reckless in their cars on the street. (populated at that)

There's plenty of local videos of drifting and street racing, but they don't catch attention because they're not wrecking.

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It would be interesting to see if the person taping the race showed it to the drivers when he stopped and checked on them. And if he let them know he was posting it online. Or even asked if that's okay. My guess is probably not. Not something you do to someone who's already upset if you're a decent person.
Of course he didn't show/ask them. I'm sure they were more concerned about the wreck than anyone who saw/video taped it. It doesn't really matter if they're upset considering they were racing on a busy street and obviously cannot handle a high horsepower car.

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Ask Sean how it feels when someone does this to you. He had an unfortunate incident at an autocross. He was already mad enough that it happened, and really didn't need the people with camera phones posting pics of it on Facebook to remind him of what happened. I asked him what he wanted from me and he said he wanted no pictures. And that's what he got. I was just happy to see him okay.
You know, if I wrecked while racing a sanctioned event OR on the street and people got video of it, I wouldn't care less about people posting videos or pictures. I wrecked a pocket bike at sound on wheels and Zane caught it on video. I was actually hurt pretty bad and he posted it on Youtube and Facebook. (and he's one of my best friends! lol) I didn't care considering it was my own fault and I made a mistake while riding it.

That's the difference. These guys in Corvette's are random people on the street acting a fool and they just happened to be caught on video acting dumb. That happens every day. Nothing new at all.
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Old November 30th   #7
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Who used this video as a soapbox? The guy who took the video actually is a car guy who used to race at the local tracks in Houston. He said that was stunned that two older guys would be so reckless in their cars on the street. (populated at that)

There's plenty of local videos of drifting and street racing, but they don't catch attention because they're not wrecking.
The guy that filmed the video turned it into A LOT of attention for himself, and at the expense of others.

Those local videos are still depicting illegal activity, and there have been incidents. It's why the word 'drift' became such a bad word with the city.
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Of course he didn't show/ask them. I'm sure they were more concerned about the wreck than anyone who saw/video taped it. It doesn't really matter if they're upset considering they were racing on a busy street and obviously cannot handle a high horsepower car.
What do you mean 'of course'? Are you kidding me? You know how medieval I'd get on someone that filmed something like that of me at a sanctioned or unsanctioned event? And I think most people would be angered at someone that creeps over and makes their incident more public than it needs to be. The videographer should have just kept on filming and shouldn't have even stopped at all. He obviously didn't care one bit about the people involved.

I can't believe you have such high-handed judgement, especially when I know what I know about your own racing experiences--"...they were racing on a busy street and obviously cannot handle a high horsepower car." So you mean to say that anyone who's ever lost control of a car 'cannot handle a high-horsepower car'? I know people that have lost control of a car that can out drive 90% of the people on the road. Does that mean they 'cannot handle a high horsepower car'? Absolutely not. Things happen. It's why they're called 'accidents'.

And the 'busy' street is the news reporters' opinion. When they took off, there was no one walking on sidewalks or pedestrians traffic anywhere. I'm sure if there was, they wouldn't have gone. Reckless isn't legal or illegal. Reckless is endangering others, and it can happen at sanctioned events just as well as unsanctioned. I've seen it both ways. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it reckless. That's what reporters and the general public don't understand. They think texting, reading, and putting on makeup in traffic isn't reckless.
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You know, if I wrecked while racing a sanctioned event OR on the street and people got video of it, I wouldn't care less about people posting videos or pictures. I wrecked a pocket bike at sound on wheels and Zane caught it on video. I was actually hurt pretty bad and he posted it on Youtube and Facebook. (and he's one of my best friends! lol) I didn't care considering it was my own fault and I made a mistake while riding it.
Well, I think you're different than most. You know how to handle the public eye and the ridicule that comes from the Internet. Most won't tolerate it, and don't want that drama in their life. And someone filming an incident should have enough courtesy to respect that.

I could have shot photos of the c6 z06 that flipped a few years back at the old airport. I had enough zoom to get it from the other side of the field. Instead, I walked over there to make sure the driver was alright and to see if I can figure out what went wrong so it can't happen again. I could have shot photos up close too if I wanted, but I didn't. Because that's what the sanctioning body and the owner wanted, and I respected their wishes. That's the right thing to do. Unless you have a personal agenda of some sort like the person that filmed the video we're talking about.
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That's the difference. These guys in Corvette's are random people on the street acting a fool and they just happened to be caught on video acting dumb. That happens every day. Nothing new at all.
I think you would seriously change your tune if it was you in that driver's seat. Think about that for a second. Imagine what that would do to your life. Just because someone with a camera wanted to. There's a power that comes with a camera, and there's a responsibility that comes with it too. Publicizing a video like this and damaging someone's life is far more reckless than anything that happened in that video.
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Old November 30th   #8
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The guy that filmed the video turned it into A LOT of attention for himself, and at the expense of others.
He posted it on his Youtube channel and showed a friend. That friend then posted it to a racing forum, then it took off from there and was sent by others to Jalopnoik and the like. He had no personal agenda, especially since I've talked with the guy's wife via Facebook about the video.

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Those local videos are still depicting illegal activity, and there have been incidents. It's why the word 'drift' became such a bad word with the city.
What do you mean 'of course'? Are you kidding me? You know how medieval I'd get on someone that filmed something like that of me at a sanctioned or unsanctioned event? And I think most people would be angered at someone that creeps over and makes their incident more public than it needs to be. The videographer should have just kept on filming and shouldn't have even stopped at all. He obviously didn't care one bit about the people involved.
Let me get this straight. If you were racing (sanctioned or not) and someone was filming the race, and you wrecked, you would be mad that they filmed it?

Like I said above, he didn't go off and send the video to news outlets. He simply shared it with a friend and it took off from there. If I video taped something like this then you better bet that I would show Zane (or a close friend) what I saw. If he took my video and shared it, that is not me sharing it for my personal gain.


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I can't believe you have such high-handed judgement, especially when I know what I know about your own racing experiences--"...they were racing on a busy street and obviously cannot handle a high horsepower car." So you mean to say that anyone who's ever lost control of a car 'cannot handle a high-horsepower car'? I know people that have lost control of a car that can out drive 90% of the people on the road. Does that mean they 'cannot handle a high horsepower car'? Absolutely not. Things happen. It's why they're called 'accidents'.
Now you're just using my statement as a blanket statement. I know there are plenty of people out there who have wrecked a high horsepower car that can, in fact, drive very well. That is not the point.

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And the 'busy' street is the news reporters' opinion. When they took off, there was no one walking on sidewalks or pedestrians traffic anywhere. I'm sure if there was, they wouldn't have gone. Reckless isn't legal or illegal. Reckless is endangering others, and it can happen at sanctioned events just as well as unsanctioned. I've seen it both ways. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it reckless. That's what reporters and the general public don't understand. They think texting, reading, and putting on makeup in traffic isn't reckless.
So you're telling me an intersection FULL of cars with people walking and biking by seconds before the light turns green isn't busy or reckless? Come on, Samir.

Racing is illegal. Racing with a busy intersection is illegal AND reckless.

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Well, I think you're different than most. You know how to handle the public eye and the ridicule that comes from the Internet. Most won't tolerate it, and don't want that drama in their life. And someone filming an incident should have enough courtesy to respect that.
It was a public event that happened. No one should get their panties in a wad because their stupidity (accident) was caught on camera. Period. If you don't want people to see what you're doing, you better take that race to a deserted road somewhere.

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Unless you have a personal agenda of some sort like the person that filmed the video we're talking about.
I just don't see how you can assume that someone has a "personal agenda" based on capturing an unsuspecting wreck? That's quite a bit of assuming.

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I think you would seriously change your tune if it was you in that driver's seat. Think about that for a second. Imagine what that would do to your life. Just because someone with a camera wanted to. There's a power that comes with a camera, and there's a responsibility that comes with it too. Publicizing a video like this and damaging someone's life is far more reckless than anything that happened in that video.
Damaging someone's life? They're not gonna lose their job, wife, home, etc. over a video of their wreck. Sure, they'll most likely get fined by the DPS (just as if a cop was there and watched it) but that's about it.

It's a car that wrecked. Sure, I'd be pissed about wrecking my car if that was me but I'm not gonna fault someone else for video taping a mistake I made in public.
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Old November 30th   #9
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Old November 30th   #10
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Old November 30th   #11
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I agree with both of you somewhat. It sucks that we have to assume everything we do these days is being recorded for youtube or police cameras.

But on a public road, we have no expectation of privacy. Even police can be recorded, regardless of their whines and lies that it's illegal (it's not).

The expectation of no privacy on public roads has always been there. It's just now there are a million more eyes watching all the time. There is some good and some bad about this, but technology will march on regardless and it will be even less private as more time passes.

Now if someone wants to invent a camera jamming device that I can use stealthily in public, of course I'm gonna buy it.
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Old November 30th   #12
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I have mixed feelings on this.

If I were driving one of the cars I would prob. be pissed that what was just going to be a wreck turned into more of an issue since it was taped. Insurance/fine wise anyway.

However in todays world everything is being recorded or pics taken. I don't really see a difference in this guy catching this on film versus catching the multiple things/accidents that we see on youtube all the time. Its not like the guy had set this up or anything. I watched this video 3 days ago when it only had under 1000 views, and at no point did he list his contact info like he was wanting to push this. It is what it is, luck of the draw for the guy that shot the video and a bad day turned worse by them vette boys
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Old November 30th   #13
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I agree with both of you somewhat. It sucks that we have to assume everything we do these days is being recorded for youtube or police cameras.

But on a public road, we have no expectation of privacy. Even police can be recorded, regardless of their whines and lies that it's illegal (it's not).

The expectation of no privacy on public roads has always been there. It's just now there are a million more eyes watching all the time. There is some good and some bad about this, but technology will march on regardless and it will be even less private as more time passes.

Now if someone wants to invent a camera jamming device that I can use stealthily in public, of course I'm gonna buy it.
Police cameras are recording while the car is on, it records in a 30 second loop and as soon as they hit the lights it saves the prev. 30 seconds and adds to it until they stop it. This ensures they have on video what they saw through the front windshield. I don't have a problem with this. It keeps lyers and crooks from getting away with stuff and keeps the rest of us honest people honest.
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Old November 30th   #14
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He posted it on his Youtube channel and showed a friend. That friend then posted it to a racing forum, then it took off from there and was sent by others to Jalopnoik and the like. He had no personal agenda, especially since I've talked with the guy's wife via Facebook about the video.
By uploading it to youtube, he published it for the world to see--even when youtube has a private option. And then he helped the news create a nice and juicy story. For what other than personal gain? How is anyone else going to benefit from this? All of us know the consequences of our driving, especially as enthusiasts where a door ding means more to us than a wreck does to most people.

If someone came to me about some pictures/video I had shot that would excessively punish someone who was already in trouble for what they did, I wouldn't release them--even for money. What's the point in helping 'punish' someone who's already suffering? That's not my job--it's the job of the justice system or God. Unless I've got some sort of misplaced anger or vengeance, but then there's just something inherently bad about that--like asking for bad karma.
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Let me get this straight. If you were racing (sanctioned or not) and someone was filming the race, and you wrecked, you would be mad that they filmed it?
No. Depending on what they do with the resulting video, I may or may not be upset. Whatever they did, if they didn't at least let me know they had it or asked me if I was okay with it getting released in a major way, I would be mad on that point alone. That shows a lack of sympathy for my pain.

The job of the professional media is to show things newsworthy, which are stories that will lead to a profit. This in itself leaves the media cold and without feelings, even to those that stories harm. But everyone running around with a camera isn't professional media. Everyone shouldn't have that right without accepting the legal liabilities that professional media does.
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Like I said above, he didn't go off and send the video to news outlets. He simply shared it with a friend and it took off from there. If I video taped something like this then you better bet that I would show Zane (or a close friend) what I saw. If he took my video and shared it, that is not me sharing it for my personal gain.
But he didn't do anything to stop the spread of it either. He could have took it down, but he didn't. He felt compelled to keep it online and furthermore cooperate with the news to create the story that blows things out of proportion.
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Now you're just using my statement as a blanket statement. I know there are plenty of people out there who have wrecked a high horsepower car that can, in fact, drive very well. That is not the point.
Okay, so that's not what you meant. But in the context of the video and knowing what you know about driving a higher-powered rwd car on a curve like that (bad idea), does that mean they can't handle it or that things just went wrong? You can't say that someone has no right to be upset because they made a mistake. Being upset and making a mistake aren't mutually exclusive.
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So you're telling me an intersection FULL of cars with people walking and biking by seconds before the light turns green isn't busy or reckless? Come on, Samir.
No more than racing 85mph+ on University Drive Beck. At least they were on a divided road.

I didn't see an 'intersection full of cars' or people constantly crossing the street like the downtown city interchange you're describing.
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Racing is illegal. Racing with a busy intersection is illegal AND reckless.
Ummm...racing isn't illegal. Unsanctioned racing is illegal. Racing anywhere without taking the consequences into account is reckless, and this can happen anywhere and anytime, sanctioned or unsanctioned. I can hardly believe you're backing the same view as the general public after a lot of the things you've said to me offline over the years. This almost doesn't sound like you. Either that or your views have changed.
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It was a public event that happened. No one should get their panties in a wad because their stupidity (accident) was caught on camera. Period. If you don't want people to see what you're doing, you better take that race to a deserted road somewhere.
I don't think the problem is with the video itself. There's millions of videos like this in existence. But taking such a video for personal profiteering and/or to harm someone else is where I draw the line.
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I just don't see how you can assume that someone has a "personal agenda" based on capturing an unsuspecting wreck? That's quite a bit of assuming.
The capture isn't where the agenda happened. It's when he's soapboxing on the news implying how he's better than these guys because he's been to the track, even when he originally was out on the street just like these guys--that showcases the personal agenda. And by doing so, he makes the two drivers suffer even more than they already were going to. Was it not bad enough to have both their cars smashed? Isn't that justice enough? They can't race again, and they've already got the consequences handed to them.

Just because something isn't overt doesn't mean it's not happening Beck. You've still got a lot to learn about these type of things...
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Damaging someone's life? They're not gonna lose their job, wife, home, etc. over a video of their wreck. Sure, they'll most likely get fined by the DPS (just as if a cop was there and watched it) but that's about it.
How do you know? Criminal charges are a lot different than traffic violations. And employers can legally fire employees for criminal convictions if that is their company policy.
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It's a car that wrecked. Sure, I'd be pissed about wrecking my car if that was me but I'm not gonna fault someone else for video taping a mistake I made in public.
I wouldn't fault him for videoing it. I would fault him for using it for personal gain. That's profiteering off of someone else's pain. Somewhere in human history prior to this point, this used to be moral wrong...
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Old November 30th   #15
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I agree with both of you somewhat. It sucks that we have to assume everything we do these days is being recorded for youtube or police cameras.

But on a public road, we have no expectation of privacy. Even police can be recorded, regardless of their whines and lies that it's illegal (it's not).

The expectation of no privacy on public roads has always been there. It's just now there are a million more eyes watching all the time. There is some good and some bad about this, but technology will march on regardless and it will be even less private as more time passes.

Now if someone wants to invent a camera jamming device that I can use stealthily in public, of course I'm gonna buy it.
I think the thing that gets me about this incident is that it's someone who's supposed to be an enthusiast--nay, a former street racer. He knows about the nuances related to what happened, and still acts like John Doe that doesn't have a clue on how all this works. I'd expect some sort of hammer-down, 'you're wrong!' from someone from the general public, but not from an enthusiast.
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Originally Posted by clintjohns View Post
I have mixed feelings on this.

If I were driving one of the cars I would prob. be pissed that what was just going to be a wreck turned into more of an issue since it was taped. Insurance/fine wise anyway.
And I would too. But what if you knew it was another enthusiast who did this to you? That changes the game for me.
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Originally Posted by clintjohns View Post
However in todays world everything is being recorded or pics taken. I don't really see a difference in this guy catching this on film versus catching the multiple things/accidents that we see on youtube all the time. Its not like the guy had set this up or anything. I watched this video 3 days ago when it only had under 1000 views, and at no point did he list his contact info like he was wanting to push this. It is what it is, luck of the draw for the guy that shot the video and a bad day turned worse by them vette boys
It is luck that the video has garnered the attention that it has, but he has always had the ability to pull the plug on the video or refuse any comment on camera. It was his choice to pursue that further. And the question and I'm trying to figure out is why? Why go through all this trouble to help 'punish' others for what you used to do? Unless there's some personal connections there that aren't being revealed, or something else like that.
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Old December 1st   #16
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Stupid corvette people

BTW ya'll mad.
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Old December 1st   #17
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"Those tires are drag radials....made for racing. I knew what was about to happen"


ROFLMAO....what a douche (the guy videoing). If he had actually had a tire that would hook rather than some "dubs" on it the whole thing wouldnt have happened.
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Old December 1st   #18
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Originally Posted by EvilZ View Post
Stupid corvette people

BTW ya'll mad.
lol. Just a heated discussion. Obviously, we're both passionate about our views.
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Originally Posted by 97ramsst View Post
"Those tires are drag radials....made for racing. I knew what was about to happen"


ROFLMAO....what a douche (the guy videoing). If he had actually had a tire that would hook rather than some "dubs" on it the whole thing wouldnt have happened.
I've had confidence that something was going to happen like that too, but I'll usually stay away to ensure my safety--not pull out a camera and follow them. This would have been a whole different video had the videographer also been involved in the accident. I wonder how far he would've let the video go then...

From what I can tell, those look like some c6 wheels. And even with drag radials, accelerating on the edge of traction while you're turning isn't a good idea. The road curved, and there probably were expansion joints since it was concrete. If he hit one of those while shifting, this exact thing can happen pretty easily.
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Old December 1st   #19
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They both have a case of nondriveridus...........case closed.
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Old December 1st   #20
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They both have a case of nondriveridus...........case closed.
I wouldn't put them down so much. Anyone that plays on the street could get themselves in that situation. Some people are just more lucky than others.
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