Go Back   Huntsville Car Scene.com > Huntsville Car Scene Forums > General Discussions

General Discussions When the thread doesn't fit anywhere else...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 7th   #1
dragginbody87
dragginbody87
has no status.
Official Huntsville Car Scene Grammar Police
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,230
The Real Cost of the Auto Bailouts

Good article that explains why "we had to rob taxpayers to save the auto industry or else" is just flat out incorrect.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...907855834.html

Quote:
If the government wanted to "sell" the companies in bankruptcy, it should have held real auctions and invited anyone to bid. But the government decided that there was no need to let pesky rule-of-law considerations interfere with its plan to help out the unions and other favored creditors. Victims of defective GM and Chrysler cars waiting to be paid damages weren't so fortunate—they'll end up getting nothing or next to nothing.

Nor would both companies simply have collapsed if the government hadn't orchestrated the two transactions. General Motors was a perfectly viable company that could have been restructured under the ordinary reorganization process. The only serious question was GM's ability to obtain financing for its bankruptcy, given the credit market conditions in 2008. But even if financing were not available—and there's a very good chance it would have been—the government could have provided funds without also usurping the bankruptcy process.
dragginbody87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th   #2
2SSRSinBama
2SSRSinBama
is stimulating the economy through burned rubber!!!
 

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 317
if you want to see the real cost of anything... look no further than the 1,000,000+ jobs created in AMERICA by General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler

and Ford likes to play this "we didn't take a bail out" card... don't be a fool, they took a bailout in the early/mid-2000s when they got into trouble financially, in fact, that is the ONLY reason they didn't get a bailout in 2009....

Honda, Nissan, and Toyota ALL took bailouts, just from the Japanese Government, not the United States... people look to blame the automotive industry for the crisis... EVERY automaker was effected, from GM to Toyota to BMW... what was the root of the problem? not the UAW, direction of the company, etc. like I said union or non-union or with every business model known to man, they all were impacted severely... FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS were the cause of the problem, they created the housing crisis, they created the automotive crisis... how? by lending money to people who had no business borrowing money... when you make $60,000 a year, you can't afford a $200,000 house, 2 cars, a boat, jet skis, and an ATV... but the banks would surely let you try! and then when a record number of loan defaults started to occur.... a trickle down effect happened... the banks almost went under, the house market became a nightmare, and the car companies almost went out of business... You can point fingers at the Republicans, Democrats whoever you want to... they've ALL played a key role in where we are at right now.... Bush ran to bail out the banks 1st, we've yet to get a DIME back from them, no one has said a word... Obama bailed out the car industry, which actually had 1,000,000 jobs on the line, and people are pointing fingers and cursing...

I'm not saying Obama is my most popular president of our time by any means, i'm just saying the last guy didn't do him or any of US any favors
__________________
2010 Camaro 2SS/RS L99
Cyber Grey Metallic w/ Matte Black stripes
X-pipe only 13.204 @ 105mph
Headers(no cats), Catback, CAI, SLP UD Pullies, Ported TB, tune
2SSRSinBama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 7th   #3
A_Cryer
A_Cryer
has no status.
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSinBama View Post
if you want to see the real cost of anything... look no further than the 1,000,000+ jobs created in AMERICA by General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler

and Ford likes to play this "we didn't take a bail out" card... don't be a fool, they took a bailout in the early/mid-2000s when they got into trouble financially, in fact, that is the ONLY reason they didn't get a bailout in 2009....

Honda, Nissan, and Toyota ALL took bailouts, just from the Japanese Government, not the United States... people look to blame the automotive industry for the crisis... EVERY automaker was effected, from GM to Toyota to BMW... what was the root of the problem? not the UAW, direction of the company, etc. like I said union or non-union or with every business model known to man, they all were impacted severely... FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS were the cause of the problem, they created the housing crisis, they created the automotive crisis... how? by lending money to people who had no business borrowing money... when you make $60,000 a year, you can't afford a $200,000 house, 2 cars, a boat, jet skis, and an ATV... but the banks would surely let you try! and then when a record number of loan defaults started to occur.... a trickle down effect happened... the banks almost went under, the house market became a nightmare, and the car companies almost went out of business... You can point fingers at the Republicans, Democrats whoever you want to... they've ALL played a key role in where we are at right now.... Bush ran to bail out the banks 1st, we've yet to get a DIME back from them, no one has said a word... Obama bailed out the car industry, which actually had 1,000,000 jobs on the line, and people are pointing fingers and cursing...

I'm not saying Obama is my most popular president of our time by any means, i'm just saying the last guy didn't do him or any of US any favors

I'm not sure that I'm understanding why you say the financial institutions created the auto bailout. The banks giving loans to stupid people who are incapable of doing math did affect the housing market because it caused people to foreclose on their home. This made the rest of the neighborhood crash because there was many vacant homes that decreased the value of the entire town. However, the financial institutions giving money for people to buy cars should have positively affected the auto industry because they got their money up front
A_Cryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #4
Samir
Samir
is missing the scene
Administrator
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSinBama View Post
FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS were the cause of the problem, they created the housing crisis, they created the automotive crisis... how? by lending money to people who had no business borrowing money... when you make $60,000 a year, you can't afford a $200,000 house, 2 cars, a boat, jet skis, and an ATV... but the banks would surely let you try! and then when a record number of loan defaults started to occur....
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Cryer View Post
The banks giving loans to stupid people who are incapable of doing math did affect the housing market because it caused people to foreclose on their home.
Actually, financial institutions had their hands tied in the whole matter. I asked the vice president of commercial lending at RBC what exactly happened, and the problem was that the banks were required by the government to give out the Fanny Mae and Mac loans that caused a lot of the issues. So in essence, the government started the problem and then solved that problem by creating another problem. Definitely not a permanent solution, and there will be consequences...
__________________
Don't hate...appreciate

Last edited by Samir; February 8th at 02:45 AM. Reason: grammar
Samir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #5
Wilson!
Wilson!
is wishing he was in a kayak on the river...
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samir View Post
Actually, financial institutions had their hands tied in the whole matter. I asked the vice president of commercial lending at RBC what exactly happened, and the problem was that the banks were required by the government to give out the Fanny Mae and Mac loans that caused a lot of the issues. So in essence, the government started the problem and then solved that problem by creating another problem. Definitely not a permanent solution, and there will be consequences...
then someone should actually do their homework instead of looking at nothing but one side and one point of view of the argument.

why keep posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over eating up bandwidth. posting the same thing over and over isn't going to change ANYTHING. if you don't like something, change it, don't sit on the sideline and complain.
__________________
due to current financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice...

Last edited by Wilson!; February 8th at 08:51 AM.
Wilson! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #6
cLc
cLc
is fighting the man~!
Huntsville Car Scene Site Sponsor
 
cLc's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 300
Send a message via AIM to cLc
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSinBama View Post
and Ford likes to play this "we didn't take a bail out" card... don't be a fool, they took a bailout in the early/mid-2000s when they got into trouble financially, in fact, that is the ONLY reason they didn't get a bailout in 2009....

Honda, Nissan, and Toyota ALL took bailouts, just from the Japanese Government, not the United States... people look to blame the automotive industry for the crisis... EVERY automaker was effected, from GM to Toyota to BMW... what was the root of the problem? not the UAW, direction of the company, etc. like I said union or non-union or with every business model known to man, they all were impacted severely... FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS were the cause of the problem, they created the housing crisis, they created the automotive crisis... how? by lending money to people who had no business borrowing money... when you make $60,000 a year, you can't afford a $200,000 house, 2 cars, a boat, jet skis, and an ATV... but the banks would surely let you try! and then when a record number of loan defaults started to occur.... a trickle down effect happened... the banks almost went under, the house market became a nightmare, and the car companies almost went out of business... You can point fingers at the Republicans, Democrats whoever you want to... they've ALL played a key role in where we are at right now.... Bush ran to bail out the banks 1st, we've yet to get a DIME back from them, no one has said a word... Obama bailed out the car industry, which actually had 1,000,000 jobs on the line, and people are pointing fingers and cursing...

I'm not saying Obama is my most popular president of our time by any means, i'm just saying the last guy didn't do him or any of US any favors
So for the first part of this: Please point me in the right direction for where Ford took a bailout. And the reason they didn't "get" or take the bailout is not because of this, take a look at the revamped Ford Business model. Ford restructured their entire company to have more funds and when other companies needed the bailout, they did not. It wasn't that they couldn't get the bailout money, it is that they didn't need it. The plan was presented to the board on January 23, 2006 and dubbed "The Way Forward".

To solely blame financial institutions is, IMO, a severe oversight. Pushing the blame on just them solves nothing, and it is not solely their fault. Yes, they made it possible for people to borrow the money, but it's the people who thought they could afford everything on a small budget and did not manage their finances properly. I'm not saying the people are the entire reason, but to solely blame any 1 group is asinine. People are always so ready to point a finger at everyone except themselves, and never wanting to take responsibility for their actions, it's easier to blame someone else.

** I'm not saying this is you, this is just a general statement.**
It's funny how people bash bush as much as they do. Everyone was on his bandwagon initially. People in this country are so ass backwards it's not even funny. Always jumping on the bandwagon, and wanting to speak their mind when they really don't know what's happening. For example, during the election where Obama was elected president: Jay Leno did his "Jay-walking" skit, asking people about presidential policies. He was putting McCain policy to Obama's name and vice versa, and people were agreeing simply because of the name on it, not the policy itself. People in this country don't actually read or do research, it's just want they want to see, and THAT is why this country is going to shit, the idiotic people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Cryer View Post
I'm not sure that I'm understanding why you say the financial institutions created the auto bailout. The banks giving loans to stupid people who are incapable of doing math did affect the housing market because it caused people to foreclose on their home. This made the rest of the neighborhood crash because there was many vacant homes that decreased the value of the entire town. However, the financial institutions giving money for people to buy cars should have positively affected the auto industry because they got their money up front
This is simply QFT!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
then someone should actually do their homework instead of looking at nothing but one side and one point of view of the argument.

why keep posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over eating up bandwidth. posting the same thing over and over isn't going to change ANYTHING. if you don't like something, change it, don't sit on the sideline and complain.
This is also QFT!!
__________________
TruFacts Racing - Your North Alabama Performance Parts and Detailing Specialists
Professional Detailer and Part Specialist
Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Racing.TruFacts
Contact us: TruFactsRacing@gmail.com
cLc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #7
dragginbody87
dragginbody87
has no status.
Official Huntsville Car Scene Grammar Police
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samir View Post
Actually, financial institutions had their hands tied in the whole matter. I asked the vice president of commercial lending at RBC what exactly happened, and the problem was that the banks were required by the government to give out the Fanny Mae and Mac loans that caused a lot of the issues. So in essence, the government started the problem and then solved that problem by creating another problem. Definitely not a permanent solution, and there will be consequences...
You saved me the typing. It was called the CRA, or Community Reinvestment Act started under Clinton. They were forced to give loans or the govt would come down hard on them with charges of racism. There were even orchestrated demonstrations against banks that tried to refuse high risk loans.

Folks, payday and title loan stores do booming business for a reason. They give high risk, high interest loans that banks normally wouldn't or shouldn't touch. But these payday loan companies get demonized for actually lending to poor irresponsible people that are high risk.
dragginbody87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #8
dragginbody87
dragginbody87
has no status.
Official Huntsville Car Scene Grammar Police
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
then someone should actually do their homework instead of looking at nothing but one side and one point of view of the argument.
Not sure if you're directing that one at me, but I already knew that part of the argument and it bolsters my position against government intervention.

Quote:
why keep posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over eating up bandwidth. posting the same thing over and over isn't going to change ANYTHING. if you don't like something, change it, don't sit on the sideline and complain.
I've never posted the same link more than once, and each thread brings its own unique discussion. Why keep posting about cars over and over? Oh, that's right. This is a car related website and I post car related topics.
dragginbody87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #9
A_Cryer
A_Cryer
has no status.
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 320
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginbody87 View Post
You saved me the typing. It was called the CRA, or Community Reinvestment Act started under Clinton. They were forced to give loans or the govt would come down hard on them with charges of racism. There were even orchestrated demonstrations against banks that tried to refuse high risk loans.

Folks, payday and title loan stores do booming business for a reason. They give high risk, high interest loans that banks normally wouldn't or shouldn't touch. But these payday loan companies get demonized for actually lending to poor irresponsible people that are high risk.
I still don't understand how financial institutions affected the auto industry nearly as much as it did the housing market. These title loan joints give people loans for cars, which means Chevrolet would receive their money upfront. They could care less if the people do not pay for the car. Also, if a person stops making on a car, then it only affects that person and the car. It does not affect an entire neighborhood which then affects an entire city. I know that GMC and the other big boy care companies have their own financing available, and I understand how they suffered in that way. However, many people make stupid financial decisions, and they deserve to suffer if they can't pay.
A_Cryer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #10
Wilson!
Wilson!
is wishing he was in a kayak on the river...
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 702
digging up articles from different places that all drag the same companies through mud over and over for something that happen 4 years ago does what?
__________________
due to current financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice...
Wilson! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #11
dragginbody87
dragginbody87
has no status.
Official Huntsville Car Scene Grammar Police
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
digging up articles from different places that all drag the same companies through mud over and over for something that happen 4 years ago does what?
You call it dragging through the mud, I call it providing information. It happened 4 years ago but it's still relevant because we are still paying for it. You're also free to *not click on the thread and free to *not respond, if you have that kind of fortitude that is.

Last edited by dragginbody87; February 8th at 11:22 AM.
dragginbody87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #12
Wilson!
Wilson!
is wishing he was in a kayak on the river...
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 702
__________________
due to current financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice...
Wilson! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #13
clintjohns
clintjohns
ROLL TIDE
 
clintjohns's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,110


__________________
"THE BRAVE MAY NOT LIVE FOREVER, BUT THE CAUTIOUS WILL NEVER LIVE AT"
clintjohns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 8th   #14
Samir
Samir
is missing the scene
Administrator
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
then someone should actually do their homework instead of looking at nothing but one side and one point of view of the argument.

why keep posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over eating up bandwidth. posting the same thing over and over isn't going to change ANYTHING. if you don't like something, change it, don't sit on the sideline and complain.
I look at these posts as simply some bits of automotive news as from any other source. All news takes liberties with the truth, so you have to do your own homework and make up your own mind regardless of what the story is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cLc View Post
It's funny how people bash bush as much as they do. Everyone was on his bandwagon initially. People in this country are so ass backwards it's not even funny. Always jumping on the bandwagon, and wanting to speak their mind when they really don't know what's happening. For example, during the election where Obama was elected president: Jay Leno did his "Jay-walking" skit, asking people about presidential policies. He was putting McCain policy to Obama's name and vice versa, and people were agreeing simply because of the name on it, not the policy itself. People in this country don't actually read or do research, it's just want they want to see, and THAT is why this country is going to shit, the idiotic people.
I can definitely understand your passion, just watch the language please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginbody87 View Post
I've never posted the same link more than once, and each thread brings its own unique discussion. Why keep posting about cars over and over? Oh, that's right. This is a car related website and I post car related topics.
It's true that you've never posted a link more than once, but sometimes these topics seem to be a strong point of contention in our otherwise harmonious community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
digging up articles from different places that all drag the same companies through mud over and over for something that happen 4 years ago does what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragginbody87 View Post
You call it dragging through the mud, I call it providing information. It happened 4 years ago but it's still relevant because we are still paying for it. You're also free to *not click on the thread and free to *not respond, if you have that kind of fortitude that is.
Topics will be posted, and some are ones you want to reply to, and others just read and move on. This topic is no different than any other, but it is causing some aggravated sentiments, which I find a bit disconcerting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clintjohns View Post

Calm down guys, it's just a link to a news topic.
__________________
Don't hate...appreciate
Samir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Real Life Mater from Cars? Samir Show and Shine 9 June 29th 05:55 PM
2012 GT-R shaping up to be a real beast. Beckham Show and Shine 0 January 26th 09:46 AM
My real Intro Munchie Introductions 12 December 21st 03:58 PM
A Real Cruise In. aminga Event Listings, Discussions, and Coverage 5 June 28th 03:29 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2001 - 2012, Huntsville Car Scene
Terms of Service