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Old February 13th   #1
dragginbody87
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You all have just won the honor to go into more debt so rich folks can buy a new Volt

Obama hikes subsidy to wealthy electric car buyers

http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/13/ob...#ixzz1mIuLZQsQ

Quote:
The White House intends to boost government subsidies for wealthy buyers of the Chevy Volt and other new-technology vehicles — to $10,000 per buyer.

That mammoth subsidy would cost taxpayers $100 million each year if it is approved by Congress, presuming only 10,000 new-technology autos are sold each year.

But the administration wants to get 1 million new-tech autos on the road by 2015. The subsidy cost of that goal could reach $10 billion.
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That high income puts the Volt’s buyers in the top 7 percent of households, according to census data, and slightly above the rankings held by households with BMWs, Lexuses or Cadillacs
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Old February 13th   #2
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Why the hell should people with lots of money get a subsidy to buy the cars.

Stupid pieces of crap anyways. I really doubt production will last until 2015 anyways. That is the worst piece of garbage car ever produced by GM.
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Old February 13th   #3
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If you want an EV do yourself a favor and get a Leaf.
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Old February 14th   #4
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Originally Posted by Tanro View Post
Why the hell should people with lots of money get a subsidy to buy the cars.
Watch the tone.

And the reason is because these are the people with cash these days to purchase these cars. This is where our country is headed towards the thinking of the third-world countries--"do what is cheap, and worry about tomorrow, tomorrow."
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Stupid pieces of crap anyways. I really doubt production will last until 2015 anyways. That is the worst piece of garbage car ever produced by GM.
Why do you say they're that bad?
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If you want an EV do yourself a favor and get a Leaf.
But these are expensive too!
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Old February 14th   #5
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....yeah that article isn't slanted in any way, lol... this is an incentive for EVERYONE not just the "wealthy"... its not like the Volt is some $175,000 car.........after the incentive its about $32,000...... its just as the article stated, the top 7% of incomes have bought more Volts than anyone... but that really isn't because of the price of the car its because who wants to drive around in a small economy car that you pay new Camaro SS or GT mustang money for... same way I feel about every hybrid on the road
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Old February 14th   #6
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Yea, about hybrids and cost...

When I was car hunting my wife was all "o0o look at the new lexus hybrid SUV"... and then I was all "OMG LOOK AT THE PRICE" and then it was all "screw Lexus, is VW time"

And so.. we have no hybrid..

Also, I would die before owning a Prius. I get along just fine in mah Fit!

For me, good mileage is a practical and economic choice. Paying twice the amount to have a hybrid sticker and marginally better mileage is no way to save money ^.^ I get 34 city and 38 highway for $14.5k (2008 price)... Volt does slightly better than that at more than double the cost!!!
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Old February 14th   #7
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Yeah, the hybrids mileage numbers aren't so great considering what some of the all-fuel cars of the past got mileage-wise. I can only imagine with some of these revamped with direct injection and other modern methods would do. We can get 100hp/litre, so there's no reason a 1.0L engine can't be made that will have enough power for commuting in a car that is basic. This is the strategy I saw in India, and it's working. Their Toyota Corolla equivalent had a direct inject diesel engine and got 40mpg+ city and hwy. Look ma, no batteries!
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Old February 14th   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minichado View Post
Also, I would die before owning a Prius. I get along just fine in mah Fit!
My sentiments exactly. I loved our Fit. Except for the a/c lines freezing like an icicle after prolonged driving, the car was a blast to drive. It's probably the most practical car on the road today in terms of room, MPG, and cost of ownership.
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Old February 14th   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samir View Post
Yeah, the hybrids mileage numbers aren't so great considering what some of the all-fuel cars of the past got mileage-wise. I can only imagine with some of these revamped with direct injection and other modern methods would do. We can get 100hp/litre, so there's no reason a 1.0L engine can't be made that will have enough power for commuting in a car that is basic. This is the strategy I saw in India, and it's working. Their Toyota Corolla equivalent had a direct inject diesel engine and got 40mpg+ city and hwy. Look ma, no batteries!
Which reminds me, in India they sell the Fit in a 1.3L, in Japan I think 1.4 or 1.5... Here I believe I have a 1.6, and I'm not sure what the newer models get.. but It's true that to commute safely you don't need more than 100hp..

the problem becomes having a small car trying to dodge the large ones on the road, you buy larger to feel safer.. its an endless cycle. Why do I need an additional 1000+lbs of metal to work to and from work with me every day?
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Old February 14th   #10
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Which reminds me, in India they sell the Fit in a 1.3L, in Japan I think 1.4 or 1.5... Here I believe I have a 1.6, and I'm not sure what the newer models get.. but It's true that to commute safely you don't need more than 100hp..

the problem becomes having a small car trying to dodge the large ones on the road, you buy larger to feel safer.. its an endless cycle. Why do I need an additional 1000+lbs of metal to work to and from work with me every day?
Interesting! I'll have to check my literature and pictures that I still have to post here.

I agree. I like having a small nimble car so I can dodge the bigger lumbering cars on the road, but in a serious accident, we all know who loses.

I think a solution would be a surcharge for larger vehicles because of extra road wear, bigger parking spots, and whatever else has to be done by the government to accommodate these larger beasts.
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Old February 14th   #11
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"I think a solution would be a surcharge for larger vehicles because of extra road wear, bigger parking spots, and whatever else has to be done by the government to accommodate these larger beasts"

Maybe not a surcharge on the purchase so much as an increased tax when registering it much like the big commercial trucks have to do?
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Old February 14th   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailman View Post
"I think a solution would be a surcharge for larger vehicles because of extra road wear, bigger parking spots, and whatever else has to be done by the government to accommodate these larger beasts"

Maybe not a surcharge on the purchase so much as an increased tax when registering it much like the big commercial trucks have to do?
Yeah, that's actually what I meant. Thank you for helping clarify it.
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Old February 14th   #13
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here are my opinions on hybrids, and i'll use the Chevy Volt as the example since its the one mentioned in this topic, but it could be replaced by any Hybrid from any company:


ok, so you want to save on gas and you go out and buy a Chevy Volt... out the Door the price is about $42,000, now given, $10,000 of that will be given back to you at the end of the year but still in the initial investment, $42,000... Since i'm going to be talking long term we'll include that credit and and say the long term investment is $32,000... to buy a comparable all time gasoline Chevy Cruze, about $19,000... so you are looking at a $13,000 gap that you will be "saving on gas"... but really? the Cruze gets about 35mpg highway, the Volt gets about 600 miles theoretically to the gallon(Jay Leno got almost 1100 miles on his 1st tank of fuel but i'll still with what seems to be the median)... lets say a person drives 300 miles a week, some people may drive more, some may drive less, that is about 60 miles through the work week a day... 52 weeks a year, about 15,500 miles... gas hovers around $3.50 a gallon so @ 35mpg: 442 gallons a year is roughly $1550... average person keeps a car 3-4 years, @ 4 years: $6200 in gas.... not to mention, at about 4 years when you are looking to get of that Volt, about the time the batteries will need to be replaced... i'd be GLAD to compare the resale of a 4 year old Chevy Cruze to a 4 year old Chevy Volt about to need a battery change that isn't exactly cheap....

in other words: owning a hybrid COST you money
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Old February 14th   #14
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Very good financial analysis.

And you've outlined the key problem with alternative power vehicles right now--they're still too expensive. Government tax breaks, subsidies, etc may get the product selling, but that's not a permanent solution.

Your analysis probably explains why I didn't see any hybrids in India. They may be poor, but they're good at math.
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Old February 14th   #15
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The new Prius is under $20k now. I know they're hideous, but I just thought I'd point that out.
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Old February 14th   #16
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The new Prius is under $20k now. I know they're hideous, but I just thought I'd point that out.
Does it have the same mileage/maintenance schedule as the previous generations? If so, then Toyota just set the bar higher on a market they created.
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Old February 14th   #17
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From what I've heard, yes.
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Old February 14th   #18
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The new Prius is under $20k now. I know they're hideous, but I just thought I'd point that out.
toyota's own site says the gas burner starts at $24,000 and the hybrid at $32,000... the camry hybrid does start at $25,000......but offers low 40s in gas mileage.... and unlike the Volt, can't go up to 60 miles without using any fuel... that is how Leno got over 1100 miles on his Volt, even he said that he COULD have stretched that out much longer.... he finally just broke down and saw how it'd actually do on fuel and it got high 40s
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Old February 14th   #19
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I saw it on one of the auto blog or jalopnik posts. It may be the new one coming out if it's not the current Prius. I didn't post the article because I didn't figure anyone would care about a Prius lol.
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Old February 14th   #20
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Interesting! I'll have to check my literature and pictures that I still have to post here.

I agree. I like having a small nimble car so I can dodge the bigger lumbering cars on the road, but in a serious accident, we all know who loses.

I think a solution would be a surcharge for larger vehicles because of extra road wear, bigger parking spots, and whatever else has to be done by the government to accommodate these larger beasts.
the problem here is, this is America. America was built around roads, instead of the road being built around the existing country/city. our roads are larger, therefor our cars are larger, with larger engines to move them. Big cars are an American stable. look back to the cars of the past. look at a 300D, '69 Caddy, '59 Lincoln, or a '67 LTD. those things were HUGE. should someone with one of these cars pay more simply because the car is bigger? if it starts costing people money to own a classic car due to its size, people will lose interest and our culture will die.... most of these people already pay more to drive the vehicle, most of them get fewer mpg and have to buy more fuel, therefor they pay more taxes on fuel.
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