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Old February 22nd   #1
dragginbody87
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Tesla Motors’ Devastating Design Problem - "It's a brick"

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-mo...design-problem
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Old February 22nd   #2
Tanro
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That is a serious design flaw....
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Old February 28th   #3
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I don't think its a design flaw, but just the nature of an electric vehicle. I mean, I've gone through two Porsche batteries in just 6 years, despite my second one being on a battery tender.

Batteries are a maintenenance item, and for all electric vehicles, they will die, resulting in an expensive replacement cost. The good thing is that battery technology is still improving and a newer battery pack will usually provide more life than the old one. I can't wait until ultracapacitors become feasible enough to start replacing batteries. Then fully electric cars will start to become a real reality.
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Old February 28th   #4
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Samir, I completely disagree. Upon reading the entire article, you will see that when their batteries die, you can not even push the car, nor will it engage "tow mode" thus allowing all 4 tires to rotate. It's basically, as the title states, a brick. Can't push, can't tow, all you can do is have Tesla replace the $40k battery before you can be on your way. Big oops for the engineers imo.

And what's up with their batteries? Honda and Toyota have tested their electric car batteries with success at well over 100k miles and the most I've seen them cost is $3k for brand new and $800 or so for slightly used. $40k seems a bit extreme even for Tesla. I mean, how much are their cars selling for used?

Well, that's my take on the matter. It's not like I'll ever own one or anything. lol
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Old March 1st   #5
Tanro
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I think if upon reaching zero charge a battery will not take a new charge at all, that is a huge design problem. Use a different kind of battery.

I have a battery that absolutly will not crank a car. but it still takes a charge and I can run a lot of 12 volt stuff off it.

I have another battery I have drained out completly more than once and it holds a charge fine. I know were compairing apples and kiwi here. But it just seems to me that a battery that is trashed after loosing its charge completly one time and costs 40k to replace is just full on insanity.
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Old March 2nd   #6
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I'm in between on this one. My question is if it is completely discharged and can not be recharged, how is it charged the first time?
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Old March 2nd   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jireh Customs View Post
I'm in between on this one. My question is if it is completely discharged and can not be recharged, how is it charged the first time?
And for that matter, how DO they get Teflon to stick to the pans???
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Old March 2nd   #8
Tanro
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I'm not saying it was aliens.....

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Old March 8th   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ITSFAST View Post
Samir, I completely disagree. Upon reading the entire article, you will see that when their batteries die, you can not even push the car, nor will it engage "tow mode" thus allowing all 4 tires to rotate. It's basically, as the title states, a brick. Can't push, can't tow, all you can do is have Tesla replace the $40k battery before you can be on your way. Big oops for the engineers imo.

And what's up with their batteries? Honda and Toyota have tested their electric car batteries with success at well over 100k miles and the most I've seen them cost is $3k for brand new and $800 or so for slightly used. $40k seems a bit extreme even for Tesla. I mean, how much are their cars selling for used?

Well, that's my take on the matter. It's not like I'll ever own one or anything. lol
But on a fully electric vehicle without power, how would it move? The motors have no power, so they would just be stuck.

All the electronics even to monitor the battery levels take power, so eventually it will die completely. No way around that. Toyota and Honda are hybrids that benefit from having a high-powered generator on-board. I'm thinking that's where they're getting cheaper pricing since they don't have to use Lithium Ion batteries, which are 10x as expensive as even the best AGM batteries.

The problem with batteries of these type is that they're not designed to fully discharge. Even revamping an Optima deep cycle can be a challenge if left discharged for too long. (Case in point is your Red Corvette with the Red Top. I left it sitting without a tender after that trans issue and it killed the battery in a few months. I got a yellow top as a replacement since the red top wasn't designed for such a deep discharge.)

On a fully electric vehicle, I don't see how to get around the problem of batteries that go back when completely discharged. Unless it has some sort of manual cutoff that activates when the car has just enough juice left for tow mode. Then, a cutoff rotates that completely kills the car, cutting off all drain in the batteries. The only problem with this is that the batteries still self-drain, so inevitably they will die and brick the car anyways. It's more than a design problem, but a fundamental problem of electric-powered cars. What do you do?
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Originally Posted by Tanro View Post
I think if upon reaching zero charge a battery will not take a new charge at all, that is a huge design problem. Use a different kind of battery.

I have a battery that absolutly will not crank a car. but it still takes a charge and I can run a lot of 12 volt stuff off it.

I have another battery I have drained out completly more than once and it holds a charge fine. I know were compairing apples and kiwi here. But it just seems to me that a battery that is trashed after loosing its charge completly one time and costs 40k to replace is just full on insanity.
But on an electric car that will go nowhere without a charge, would anyone really drain the battery that low if they're driving the car? That's the thing. Car have always had a 'use it or lose it' characteristic to them, having more problems when sitting than if driven regularly. But this problem multiplies with fully electric vehicles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jireh Customs View Post
I'm in between on this one. My question is if it is completely discharged and can not be recharged, how is it charged the first time?
Good question. I think it's more a matter of the batteries get damaged with a full discharge. Most lead-acid style batteries suffer from this. I killed my $250 Porsche battery in under a year doing this.
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I'm not saying it was aliens.....

LOL!! How can someone be on tv with that type of hair? I look like that when I first wake up, lol.
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Old March 8th   #10
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I like that dude. He makes some good points sometimes, and other times he's talking total garbage.
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Old March 8th   #11
Tanro
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You don't use lead acid batteries.
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Old March 8th   #12
Micah
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i agree with samir. its just how it all works. and also id consider a bigger flaw of tesla is that they have a one speed transmission. granted, it isnt a design flaw either because the electric motors just burn through any other gears, but at some point it would be nice to see a regular number of gears in this car. especially as we see the newer sports cars being released having more and more gears for added performance. for instance, the new Porche 7 speed straight shift transmission thatll be available on the new 911.
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Old March 9th   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanro View Post
You don't use lead acid batteries.
Even Lithium Ion ones have issues from what I recall. Aside from using ultra-capacitors, which haven't even emerged as a technology in batteries, I don't know of a completely loss-less power source.
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and also id consider a bigger flaw of tesla is that they have a one speed transmission. granted, it isnt a design flaw either because the electric motors just burn through any other gears, but at some point it would be nice to see a regular number of gears in this car. especially as we see the newer sports cars being released having more and more gears for added performance. for instance, the new Porche 7 speed straight shift transmission thatll be available on the new 911.
But with cars you need these since the engines can only turn so many rpms. Electric motors don't have this problem. 0-20,000 rpm? Coming right up!
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Old March 9th   #14
Micah
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yeah and now that i think about it the electric motors put out max level of torque at basically any rpm dont they. so it wouldnt make a difference..
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Old March 9th   #15
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Yep. It's why the Fisker Karma has 900+wtq stock. Talk about a cool drift car.
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Old March 9th   #16
Micah
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nah because you cant overrev the engine in a clutch kick.. plus, its not got a v8.
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Old March 9th   #17
Micah
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but the karma does have the first curved solar panel as a roof, and that is cool.
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Old March 9th   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micah View Post
nah because you cant overrev the engine in a clutch kick.. plus, its not got a v8.
With 900wtq, would you really need a clutch kick?
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but the karma does have the first curved solar panel as a roof, and that is cool.
I didn't know that. Learn something new every day.
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Old March 9th   #19
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with 900wtq, i would shart myself if i tried drifting it. id probably drift straight into last week
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Old March 9th   #20
Tanro
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I understand a battery is gonna drain over time, they need to use a battery that isn't utterly destroyed by loosing its charge. I realize any battery draining to low multiple times, or draining completly will suffer some damage. But, being a complete brick because of loosing power 1 time. Bad.
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