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Old June 27th   #1
Yoo Shin
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Roll Center Kit install?

I installed springs about a month ago, and have been contemplating the need for a Roll Center Kit, and after doing some research, I believe I would benefit from it, question is, has anybody installed one of these or knows a shop that has, or at least would have the right tools (mainly the press to push the bushings out).
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Old June 27th   #2
Samir
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Interesting! I've never even heard of something like this. Is it a Evo specific mod?
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Old June 27th   #3
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Originally Posted by Samir View Post
Interesting! I've never even heard of something like this. Is it a Evo specific mod?
There are other names for this type of suspension mod that does similar suspension adjustments, like "bump steer" kit, which I think is more common. Basically it pulls up the roll center, by moving the a arm mount(s) or pivot points up to where they're less parallel to the ground when static and when loaded. I state it like that, because there's quite a few who think this kit is a fix for a Evos, or cars that are agressively lowered, but it's not.

With my new springs, I've noticed the increase in understeer and bump steer, along with turn-in and response. I'd like to install the RCK but it's something that requires a press. Otherwise I'll just go back to stock or find me a set of SE or MR Bilsteins take-offs.
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Old June 27th   #4
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Ahhh, this makes perfect sense. My Corvette exhibits more bump steer since it's lowered and had no idea there was a way to actually correct it. I learned something new today.
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Old June 27th   #5
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C has the whiteline rck in his evo 8 with his JRZ suspension. I've read a lot that say you do and some say you don't need it. I'm currently running the Ohlins DFV coilovers on mine and it's a 1 & 7/8 inch drop. I haven't installed the kit and the car handles better than with stock suspension for sure. I may end up getting the kit, because I have noticed some understeer, but nothing I couldn't fix with driver inputs.
You seem to understand the geometry exactly how I do so I can't add to that aspect. Like I said I don't have it installed as of now and I went from about 4th in my class to 2nd last event, so the car handles better, but I can't say it wouldn't be EVEN BETTER if the kit were installed. I'll be able to tell you after this autox season. Don't want to change any setup on the car as of now. Takes a while to learn and adapt driving styles to accommodate for major changes lol and i've learned this setup as of now.
A lot of the more experienced guys continue to tell me "there's no magic setup for a car, it's about how much you're in the seat fixing YOU instead of fixing the CAR" I'm slowly seeing more and more how that holds true.
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Old June 28th   #6
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To dial out some of the understeer, you can just play with tire pressures. Remove some up front or add some in the back to get the car where you want it. There's A LOT you can do just with pressures. That's why you'll see a lot of guys checking the pressures after every run.

And don't be afraid to run different pressures on different wheels. I found 40 up front and 38 in the rear ideal for my Altima. I liked it so much that I ran those pressures on the street.
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Old June 28th   #7
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My lucky numbers have been 34f/38r
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Old June 28th   #8
Yoo Shin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPEVOX View Post
C has the whiteline rck in his evo 8 with his JRZ suspension. I've read a lot that say you do and some say you don't need it. I'm currently running the Ohlins DFV coilovers on mine and it's a 1 & 7/8 inch drop. I haven't installed the kit and the car handles better than with stock suspension for sure. I may end up getting the kit, because I have noticed some understeer, but nothing I couldn't fix with driver inputs.
You seem to understand the geometry exactly how I do so I can't add to that aspect. Like I said I don't have it installed as of now and I went from about 4th in my class to 2nd last event, so the car handles better, but I can't say it wouldn't be EVEN BETTER if the kit were installed. I'll be able to tell you after this autox season. Don't want to change any setup on the car as of now. Takes a while to learn and adapt driving styles to accommodate for major changes lol and i've learned this setup as of now.
A lot of the more experienced guys continue to tell me "there's no magic setup for a car, it's about how much you're in the seat fixing YOU instead of fixing the CAR" I'm slowly seeing more and more how that holds true.
I went through that with my old WRX, making too many changes too often during the season, and never really adapted to or relearned the car's new behavior. Though I'm not tracking my Evo yet, I'm trying really hard to do mods gradually so I can learn each step, first starting with the sway bars which I had for 2 years of snap oversteering fun, and now the springs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samir View Post
To dial out some of the understeer, you can just play with tire pressures. Remove some up front or add some in the back to get the car where you want it. There's A LOT you can do just with pressures. That's why you'll see a lot of guys checking the pressures after every run.

And don't be afraid to run different pressures on different wheels. I found 40 up front and 38 in the rear ideal for my Altima. I liked it so much that I ran those pressures on the street.
Tire pressure is a huge factor, yet this is the first car that I felt responds best keeping it at manufacturer's recommended pressure of 32/32.

I'll try browing some vendors and shops to see who does full suspension work, especially with a arms.
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Old August 1st   #9
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I got the kit but need a shop to install it. I'm guessing any shop that can do full suspension work would be able to do it. Anybody have suggestions?
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Old February 3rd   #10
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From the dead here. Did you ever get this installed?
I just installed this yesterday. Wasn't too bad with the ball joint service kit from advance auto parts. Haven't got the front end aligned yet, so I haven't driven it. I will get it back in line this week and the first autox event is in a couple weeks, so I will be able to comment on the handling improvements then. I drove it 2 miles home from the shop i did the work in and i noticed the steering is VERY slow about returning to center, you basically have to center the wheel after a turn each time. C also has this on his viii with his RCK. That will take some getting use to coming out of corners. I'll give a better review once I get to test it fully.
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Old February 5th   #11
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No it's still sitting on my bench. I was debating on getting a small press or just taking it to a shop, but not sure which I want to do, invest in the time, money or both.

That's a bit discouraging to hear about how it feels. I'm really hoping to bring back some of the turn-in and neutrality/rotation that I lost when I lowered it, though I do like the improved stability. All the research I found said that the RCK would do the trick, but I don't think I read anything on the on-center response. Hopefully it's just an alignment issue. I love the way my car looks lowered, but if it takes going back to stock to get back the feel, I'll probably just do that.
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Old February 5th   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoo Shin View Post
No it's still sitting on my bench. I was debating on getting a small press or just taking it to a shop, but not sure which I want to do, invest in the time, money or both.

That's a bit discouraging to hear about how it feels. I'm really hoping to bring back some of the turn-in and neutrality/rotation that I lost when I lowered it, though I do like the improved stability. All the research I found said that the RCK would do the trick, but I don't think I read anything on the on-center response. Hopefully it's just an alignment issue. I love the way my car looks lowered, but if it takes going back to stock to get back the feel, I'll probably just do that.
Go to advance and get their kit. You just rent it and take it back, so you come out not spending any money.

I got an alignment and it was way out from what it was. Car drives great. Only at low speeds, the steering doesn't snap back to straight. But that's not really an issue since my hand are always on the wheel. I think the geometry fix far outweighs the steering not returning to center. Minor detail. First event is a week from Saturday, so I will report back then and give you some more solid info on handling changes.
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Old February 5th   #13
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That's good, have you noticed less under steer or less front end roll?
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Old February 5th   #14
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I haven't done anything to test it yet. It's only traveled a few miles. Won't move again until the 16th. I don't drive it hard at all except at an event. It will be fully tested in 11 days
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Old February 17th   #15
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Ok so yesterday was the big day. New tires, not scrubbed in fully and cold tires/surface led to no grip for anyone. I did have more oversteer whenever I wanted it. I did notice I ran 2psi lower in the front and I still didn't roll the sidewalls. This leads me to believe the camber curve is better. I checked the tires after and there was less wear than normal on the outer edges, again showing the camber stays on the negative side longer with suspension compression vs stock ball joints/tie rod ends. I am running RS3s on the new wheels so it may just be stiffer sidewalls in the RS3s vs star specs. Also the new wheels are 1 inch wider +15 offset opposed to +38mm offset stock. Steering felt smoother when transitioning in the slaloms for sure. I only understeered one time all day, so that's saying something. Just bad driver inputs if i'm honest. Most of this is just subjective other than the tires not rolling under and more even wear on the tread patch instead of eating the outside of the tire.

It's proven that it keeps a better camber curve throughout suspension travel, also prevents tow changes with compression and i can agree from my results. If I had it to do over, I would do the same.
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Old February 18th   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoo Shin View Post
Tire pressure is a huge factor, yet this is the first car that I felt responds best keeping it at manufacturer's recommended pressure of 32/32.

I'll try browing some vendors and shops to see who does full suspension work, especially with a arms.
Sometimes the manufacturers are dead-on. I know that if I even deviate 1psi on my Boxster it doesn't feel right. Good to hear you've already played with the cheapest adjustment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoo Shin View Post
I got the kit but need a shop to install it. I'm guessing any shop that can do full suspension work would be able to do it. Anybody have suggestions?
The only shop I know of in North Alabama that can really do something like this is Tom Neel at The Parts Group in Danville. Tommy is an EXCELLENT driver and sets up race suspensions all the time, so he's well qualified. I know he's put on a $10k suspension on a local Miata that autocrosses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoo Shin View Post
No it's still sitting on my bench. I was debating on getting a small press or just taking it to a shop, but not sure which I want to do, invest in the time, money or both.

That's a bit discouraging to hear about how it feels. I'm really hoping to bring back some of the turn-in and neutrality/rotation that I lost when I lowered it, though I do like the improved stability. All the research I found said that the RCK would do the trick, but I don't think I read anything on the on-center response. Hopefully it's just an alignment issue. I love the way my car looks lowered, but if it takes going back to stock to get back the feel, I'll probably just do that.
The advantage on the time vs the money is you'll know your car better than anyone, and if something has an issue, you'll know exactly how bad it is and what needs to be done to fix it right. Otherwise, you'd be at the mercy of some shop that may not really care after they've been paid.

I think a lot of the return to issues can be fixed with a custom alignment. There's a guy in Athens that has his own alignment rack, so he can do any type of custom alignment you want. There's a thread about him on here with more details.
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Old February 20th   #17
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Originally Posted by HPEVOX View Post
Ok so yesterday was the big day. New tires, not scrubbed in fully and cold tires/surface led to no grip for anyone. I did have more oversteer whenever I wanted it. I did notice I ran 2psi lower in the front and I still didn't roll the sidewalls. This leads me to believe the camber curve is better. I checked the tires after and there was less wear than normal on the outer edges, again showing the camber stays on the negative side longer with suspension compression vs stock ball joints/tie rod ends. I am running RS3s on the new wheels so it may just be stiffer sidewalls in the RS3s vs star specs. Also the new wheels are 1 inch wider +15 offset opposed to +38mm offset stock. Steering felt smoother when transitioning in the slaloms for sure. I only understeered one time all day, so that's saying something. Just bad driver inputs if i'm honest. Most of this is just subjective other than the tires not rolling under and more even wear on the tread patch instead of eating the outside of the tire.

It's proven that it keeps a better camber curve throughout suspension travel, also prevents tow changes with compression and i can agree from my results. If I had it to do over, I would do the same.
Excellent, sounds like the RCK is proven once again. by the way, what size tires and which wheels are you running?
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Old February 20th   #18
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RPF1's 18 x 9.5 +15mm offset 265/35 RS3s. I will be out at the TAC/TVR event on March 2nd at Milton Frank Stadium with a few others from the ALSCCA region. Come out and join us!
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Old February 21st   #19
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RPF1's 18 x 9.5 +15mm offset 265/35 RS3s. I will be out at the TAC/TVR event on March 2nd at Milton Frank Stadium with a few others from the ALSCCA region. Come out and join us!
Very nice, and excellent wheel and much better than a Rota, though I still do like Rotas and had them on my Subarus. What color, silver? I'm curious to see how they look/fit. I was looking at the NT03s in 18x10.5 for it's 30 offset but that's a pretty wide wheel and not sure if it needs more than stock strut clearance and camber can allow.

I might just be able to make it out on the 2nd. I haven't seen or been in a track event since moving here from Texas 5 years ago.
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Old February 21st   #20
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Black. Here is a test fit pic.



10.5 would require a roll/pull in the rear and some front fender work too I'm pretty sure, not sure about strut clearance. I only had to roll the rears on mine. Come out Saturday the 2nd and you can check it out and ride with me if you want.
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