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Old April 16th   #1
mustangcorral
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Show Crashers

Vets with Vettes co-hosted a charity fund raiser this weekend at the Veteran's War Museum facilities in order to raise money for the Redstone Arsenal's Army Emergency Relief Fund. This money is used througout the year to help our Soldiers in times of dire need, such as family emergencies, that require immediate assistance.

It was a great show. We enjoyed beautiful weather and a good turn-out of area vehicle owners and their collective pride and joys! Numerous local businesses and corporations jumped to the forefront to donate time, services, labor and energies, prizes, and cash to the fund. To each who supported this effort by displaying your vehicle, making your donation, offering words of encouragement, reminising about days gone by, making special actions above and beyond (Thanks Paul) or couldn't make it out but sent us a thought, we Thank You!!

I have but one comment that I believe should be shared among all the clubs. We uncovered a couple of local participants who purposefully "crashed" our show. The young men went so far as to obtain dash placards from our Registration Booth to display on their dashboard. Because they did not register and pay their entrance fee, they merely wrote "Do Not Judge" across the card, assuming by this slight of hand action they would be able to partake in the pride and comraderie of displaying their vehicles on the show grounds, willing to forego the trophy judging.

This is an unsavory action and amounts to theft of services by fraudulent means. I can only wonder how often these actions are occuring at the various shows in the Huntsville Metropolitan area. Many times entrants will ask to just go ahead and get their vehicle parked and set-up, telling the people working the registration booth that they will come back and do the paperwork. I guess these two gentlemen have shown us all that the car clubs' collective trust in the participants is yet something else that is diminishing and bears watching. Shame on you two!
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Old April 16th   #2
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that SUCKS
really bad for their Karma
While I will bring one of my cars to a show
and have a DNJ in my window, I always pay the reg

always try to do the right thing
It doesn't matter if no one is watching
(because he is)
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Old April 16th   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangcorral
Vets with Vettes co-hosted a charity fund raiser this weekend at the Veteran's War Museum facilities in order to raise money for the Redstone Arsenal's Army Emergency Relief Fund. This money is used througout the year to help our Soldiers in times of dire need, such as family emergencies, that require immediate assistance.

It was a great show. We enjoyed beautiful weather and a good turn-out of area vehicle owners and their collective pride and joys! Numerous local businesses and corporations jumped to the forefront to donate time, services, labor and energies, prizes, and cash to the fund. To each who supported this effort by displaying your vehicle, making your donation, offering words of encouragement, reminising about days gone by, making special actions above and beyond (Thanks Paul) or couldn't make it out but sent us a thought, we Thank You!!

I have but one comment that I believe should be shared among all the clubs. We uncovered a couple of local participants who purposefully "crashed" our show. The young men went so far as to obtain dash placards from our Registration Booth to display on their dashboard. Because they did not register and pay their entrance fee, they merely wrote "Do Not Judge" across the card, assuming by this slight of hand action they would be able to partake in the pride and comraderie of displaying their vehicles on the show grounds, willing to forego the trophy judging.

This is an unsavory action and amounts to theft of services by fraudulent means. I can only wonder how often these actions are occuring at the various shows in the Huntsville Metropolitan area. Many times entrants will ask to just go ahead and get their vehicle parked and set-up, telling the people working the registration booth that they will come back and do the paperwork. I guess these two gentlemen have shown us all that the car clubs' collective trust in the participants is yet something else that is diminishing and bears watching. Shame on you two!
Normally I wouldn't say anything, but I have to address this issue. I will first start off by saying that I really enjoyed the show, and we came to this show to support the cause and to enjoy a good time on a gorgeous day.

The two gentlemen in question are in my car club. There are a few things that need to be said in their defense and my club's defense, and I was of the same opinion as they were.

1. We're a club. Just like Vets with Vettes. We have club unity and we support each other as well as the events we attend. What they were doing was not "showing" but they were supporting by parking with the rest of their club members...which brings me to issue number 2...

2. In all the time I have been doing shows I have never been parked by classes. I understand the reasoning behind it because it does make judging easier, however as I mentioned earlier...we're a club and we function accordingly. We park as a group, and show as a group...hence the pride and comradery of being in a club...not the show...the show is just that...a place to "show" but in respect to your judging system we didn't say anything about our entire club being scattered all over the place.

3. Some of these people in my club are not always able to afford a $20 entry fee...case in point, I not only entered my vehicle but I also paid out of my pocket to enter 2 other vehicles that were not mine, but they were in my club because I wanted to show that my club was supporting the cause...I didn't think that would go unrecognized...we brought 8 vehicles that entered and 4 others that couldn't enter...

4. We go to several events all over north and central Alabama. Even the vehicles that can not enter due to funding issues still park with the rest of the group because even though they can't enter the show they still want to support the club, and secondly, the show (it's also in our club rules) so you haven't uncovered a couple of participants, you've "uncovered" almost 40 of them.

5. I'd love for you to explain how they parked with their club and wrote "Do Not Judge" on the piece of paper "CRASHED" the show? They parked with their club and then I assume they were asked to leave, and they did. If I knew it was so controversial, then I would have had all of our club members pack up and leave the show if we were unwelcomed, but I would have also expected a refund for each and every member - in full.

6. Comparing this to a 3rd degree misdemeanor over a piece of paper is almost offensive. As mentioned earlier - we're a club and supporting the club (if able) at all car shows is appreciated but not required. Everywhere else welcomes us with open arms...whether they require payment or not...they appreciate the support...I thought this was recreation...you know...fun...why does it have to get this serious?

7. The trust is not diminishing, we all have the same values you do, but we've never been turned away for not paying to park, and still being hounded for money after they were refused admittance. EX: Ya'll were pushing those $10 shirts and 50/50 tickets HARD!

We CHOSE to come to your show because of the respect and admiration of the Military, Vets with Vettes, the fact that HuntsvilleCarScene.com was a sponsor, and the charitable reasons of the show. We could have gone to one of the other 3 or 4 shows in the area and never had to spread ourselves all over the place, and we would have been able to have all 12 of our members that could make it to the show, park, and show club unity and event support.

I hope you see where I am coming from in this discussion. I do see where your point is, but it is misconstrued and blown way out of proportion. My club acts in a respectful manner, and as I mentioned earlier...if someone would have brought the problem to me and it was as large as you're making it seem, then we simply would have gotten our refund and left to go to a show where we were welcomed.
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Old April 16th   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook
that SUCKS
really bad for their Karma
While I will bring one of my cars to a show
and have a DNJ in my window, I always pay the reg

always try to do the right thing
It doesn't matter if no one is watching
(because he is)
Not necessarily, Spook. Most event hosts don't have a problem with clubs parking together...the only thing they ask is that if the vehicle is not being judged then make some sort of effort to show that. As I mentioned in my other post, some of these folks can't always afford to pay a $20 entry fee a week for a show and still have gas to actually make it to the event. They want to support the event but they don't have the money to do it at the time...that doesn't mean any disrespect just because you can't give money.

This kinda resembles another situation I had dealt with personally. I had a lot of items including toys, furniture and lawn equipment, and even some heavy duty industrial air conditioners that I was donating to Habitat for Humanity and the Goodwill, and Christmas Charities. ALL of them refused the items I was donating due to "not having anywhere to put it" but they had plenty of room for cash donations. Now rather than the things that were going to be donated going to someone that may need it desperately, it all got thrown away...and it will never do anyone any good anymore...

Yeah, money is always accepted over good deeds or good intentions because you can't buy anything with good deeds or intentions...
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Old April 16th   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMack75
Not necessarily, Spook. Most event hosts don't have a problem with clubs parking together...the only thing they ask is that if the vehicle is not being judged then make some sort of effort to show that.
Thats cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMack75
As I mentioned in my other post, some of these folks can't always afford to pay a $20 entry fee a week for a show and still have gas to actually make it to the event. They want to support the event but they don't have the money to do it at the time...that doesn't mean any disrespect just because you can't give money.
I agree

It sounds like a miscomucation to me
between those members and the event orginizer
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Old April 16th   #6
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i have some serious thoughts on the matter but i dont have a dog in this race. i was made to move my mustang at the ships show as i accidently parked in the show area. it is forever back but " to pay or not to pay " was probably my first thread on this scene. and some of these comments and some of my own in the past are why " private messages " should be used more often
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Old April 16th   #7
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I know what you're saying hoss. I just don't see the big problem. I don't see how it could be referred to as "crashing" a car show. They were just parking with their club. I saw all the corvettes parked together, but they were putting on the show, so no one said anything to them.

We even had to do some re-classifying ourselves in order to make it fair for ourselves (which goes back to my question as to where I'd be classed at this show in another thread). I ended up in the trucks category, mainly because I was in the wrong class...they put me in Modified, and honestly I don't think they planned it out well enough. What constitutes a modified car? There was a hot rod in the modified class, and he won first. I'm not knocking it, because it was a very nice vehicle and had a lot of chrome, but ya'll know what Wes' Impala looks like...he was also in modified and got 2nd...how that ever could have happened, I will never know, but there's the bias towards the older cars. Also how I got 2nd I'll never know either, but I'm not complaining about that - it happens and I had fun and thats why I was there in the first place.

I agree with the private messages as well, but it was posted publicly, so I don't see why we can't discuss it publicly.

Just wondering Hoss, when you had to move your mustang, did they ask you to move it politely or did they accuse you of theft of services and demand that you move it? If they had done the latter...how would you have felt?
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Old April 16th   #8
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classification

Well, referring to classifications of vehicles, I guess I will step in. I was at the front most of the time, helping to check the participants in. I tried to ask each and every one what class they would like their special vehicle to be put under: either their year vehicle, modified, truck, tuner, etc. The participate either marked his catogory on the form that he filled out or stated to me what he wanted to be under. Only the participate knows his vehicle and how many changes were made as to put it under "modified". It was not the Vettes members' decisions, but the participants choice. A few did come back up and asked to be changed, and I stated that would be fine, just make the change to the form in your windshield that the judges will be looking for. No big deal. Thanks.
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Old April 16th   #9
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I feel as if I need to say something in reference to my actions regarding this so I am not misconstrued as well. I really do not want everyone to think that I am someone looking for a confrontation. I will not "start" anything, but I will defend to an extent. I just want everyone to have all sides of the story. I am extremely easy to talk to and deal with.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to Vets with Vettes, or anyone else for that matter, but I will not stand by quietly and let criminal accusations be made of my club (or its members) when they were just doing what we've all been doing...having fun at a car show with the rest of their club.

For that reason I would think it would be viewed upon as being a good attribute of the club...you know, a president of a club that looks out for his members and not one that just sits back and watches their members be rideculed. Thats the way I look at it. I'm welcome to any other input or any other opinions. Constructive criticism is a good thing in my book.
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Old April 16th   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coupemama
Well, referring to classifications of vehicles, I guess I will step in. I was at the front most of the time, helping to check the participants in. I tried to ask each and every one what class they would like their special vehicle to be put under: either their year vehicle, modified, truck, tuner, etc. The participate either marked his catogory on the form that he filled out or stated to me what he wanted to be under. Only the participate knows his vehicle and how many changes were made as to put it under "modified". It was not the Vettes members' decisions, but the participants choice. A few did come back up and asked to be changed, and I stated that would be fine, just make the change to the form in your windshield that the judges will be looking for. No big deal. Thanks.
Yes, and I appreciate that because I am not sure if anyone else did that but I do know we had to. Thank you very much for allowing us to do that.

I don't think any of us has ever been to a show that did it this way and it was more of a learning experience for us (I know it was for me). We all knew what our vehicles should have been, but when we parked and saw what else was in the class we were parked in then we knew it wasn't the right class for us. My Suburban should have been classed as a truck, and I came up and asked if it was alright for me to change and I think you were the one that told me yes. The reason I did that is because when I pulled in, I was the only "non-car" in the modified category, so I felt as if I needed to change into trucks...not for me, but to be fair to everyone else in the category. I always hear people complain because they got stuck in a category with a car that came off a trailer and they had a truck, or some other similar scenario...thats why I changed. I had a SUV, the rest were cars.

Some others got in 1991-up but one was a "tuner" so I think we really only changed his and mine, but it all worked out fine...like I said, it was a learning experience.
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Old April 16th   #11
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I think what Jay is trying to say is, normally people come to car shows to look at the cars. Also due to a tragic accident almost everyone in our club was up at huntsville hospital till 7-8 in the morning praying our friend would make it and dealing with the fact that our other friend had passed away. If not for this tragic avent our club would have had well over 20 cars entering your show. they guys in question were just trying to suppport your event and our car club. They werent trying to do anything wrong. In wich case I was not there becasue i was headed home around the time our club left. But I appolagize for any inconvenience they might have put you through and I hope that you accept my appolagy and know that they were not purposly trying to do anything wrong.
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Old April 16th   #12
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Jay, I was happy to accommodate and glad everything worked out. Marsha
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Old April 16th   #13
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Open Message To JayMack from Doug

JayMack, I was one of the VwV helpers and judges. With due deference to Bill, I did not see what he referred to, with respect to your club members. I hope that he was so busy with the bazillion things that he was doing that he mis-interpreted something, or heard something from someone, or (fill in the blank). I did see members of your club behave in an orderly, friendly manner. I saw your vehicle, and it was one of the coolest there. I had a hard time not supporting it for best of show, and I would have, except for that Model-A in the corner. I don't think that I have a bias for older cars, but I have a bias for hard work on any car that makes it very cool - and yours was exactly that. It was exciting to see all of what you put into your vehicle. I even asked you to look at the Model-A and give me an idea of how to evaluate your two vehicles. I kept an open mind throughout the event. There were about 10 vehicles that were breath-taking good, and yours was one of them! About Do Not Judge, I read your answers in the thread, and I mostly agree with your points. You should indeed stand up for your club. I think that clubs that are used to parking together should be considered by VwV and other shows as a real 'requirement', because I agree that comaraderie and support from friends can be an important factor in having a pleasant experience. Club unity is very important. And I agree that not everyone has $20 for every event. We did a good job of raising funds for a great cause, and part of that success was due to you and your members. Sorry, but I really hope that Bill reconsiders what went down - I'd like to see your truck (or modified) (or whatever) again and again. It shows the true spirit of what a car show is about - great cars and great folks!
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Old April 16th   #14
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one last thought

Jay, By parking/grouping the special vehicles in their respective classes just makes it easier on the judges to the have class that they are judging all together so that no one is missed or overlooked. By parking the clubs together, which is nice and I know I like to be with my club members that I cruised in with, a special vehicle or two may be missed during the judging and not be judged. That would be tragic, especially if that special vehicle is truly worthy of a trophy and not understand why he did not get one. It would be difficult to let that person know he was just missed - no other reason. I have been to many shows that park this way (classes together), including the great event in Pulaski later in the year. They have been doing their show for probably 25 years or more. And I am sure you will run into this way of parking & judging at other shows evidently.
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Old April 16th   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10on20s99
I think what Jay is trying to say is, normally people come to car shows to look at the cars. Also due to a tragic accident almost everyone in our club was up at huntsville hospital till 7-8 in the morning praying our friend would make it and dealing with the fact that our other friend had passed away. If not for this tragic avent our club would have had well over 20 cars entering your show. they guys in question were just trying to suppport your event and our car club. They werent trying to do anything wrong. In wich case I was not there becasue i was headed home around the time our club left. But I appolagize for any inconvenience they might have put you through and I hope that you accept my appolagy and know that they were not purposly trying to do anything wrong.
sorry to hear that roger...what happened and to who if you dont mind me askin?
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Old April 16th   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMack75
I saw all the corvettes parked together, but they were putting on the show, so no one said anything to them.
No one said anything because they were not being judged.

I hope all parties get their issues/grievances resolved. I hate to see stuff like this cause problems. this was too nice of a show with some very nice autos. I'm looking forward to this show/cruise season.
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Old April 16th   #17
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Man I missed out on a lot. I hope every body had a good time. I had only 3 of my cars there from the club which all 3 placed. Maybe next year we can have a larger group.

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Old April 16th   #18
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I must admit that this thread has turned into a very interesting series of posts in which underlying emotions and misconceptions have been aired. If anyone should think there was cause for anything other than what is turning out to be different views and opinions then please hold that thought.

Let me say that after reading your post I have a better understanding of why those actions were taken by your club members. I also must say that observing non-registerd vehicles parked in the display area gave me concern about participants bypassing the entire registration process, hence the term "Registration". It should have been at that point where this issue was addressed and resolved. From what I have read in earlier posts, it is the intention of some clubs to want to park together for shows as this is their way to show support for the cause. Had this been a Cruise-In or a Rally, or anything other than a "judged by class Car Show" I could understand that everyone wants to be with their club members, parked together. Or for example, in a show where awards are presented to the top five, or ten, or twenty vehicles. In those cases, it doesn't matter where you are parked or grouped.

By definition, a car show delineating classes should indicate that your vehicle will be parked within a particluar class section and judged accordingly. Registration means just that, to register. But I think a better way to look at this, would be to take the example to extremes. If 100 cars arrive for a show, and 95 pay, then it isn't the end of the world if five of them somehow bypassed registration and parked, even out of their classes. It is not right, but... However, suppose out of a 100 cars, 95 of them did this under the guise that they were there to support the cause, yet only 5 registered. That would make quite a difference in the ability to raise funds or equipement for a cause.

Regarding the fact that the host club's vehicles were all parked together, that is because they were not entered in judged classes. Each club member paid their full registration money and were rewarded by having to work the show. But that is what we do for this annual event. I believe each did a great job as well as the volunteers we had from other clubs. These jobs were made easy by the fine people we have in the Huntsville Car Clubs. In this particular case, I think much of the assumptions made could have been prevented had your group inquired at the Registration Booth if anything could be done to alleviate your particular financial situation or questions you might have had about not fully understanding how the event was laid out. I know if I don't comprehend something I am not beyond inquiring about the rules, conditions, or if there are alternatives.

You did a great job of defending your club's intentions and expressing how your members perceived their offer of support. I commend you for expressing that as it was the proper thing to do.

Above all else, please don't think even for a minute that your club's members, or any other clubs were unwelcome at this event. I certainly apologize to you and your members if you thought that. We posted this through Huntsville Car Scene in order to reach the maximum number of clubs and their members.

My lesson has been learned. At future events we will address this issue up front. Perhaps there are ways to include more participants from a particular club, acknowledging their combined support effort, or figure out some way to open the gates for other vehicles that are display purpose only, not to be judged. We could have set up such a corral for that, but did not consider it for this event.

I hope my offer of amends is meaningful to you and is taken at my word. I reacted to the situation as I saw it and made a decision based on my observations and information that was passed on to me. I am sorry for any embarrassment caused by me as well as being too poignant in this forum. However, it remains the responsibility of event participants to have an understanding of the ground rules at a event, and if there is doubt, ask the questions. Assuming things is never a good thing.

Good cruising this summer!!
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Old April 17th   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevr2loS10
sorry to hear that roger...what happened and to who if you dont mind me askin?
Well Brandon Newberry, and his girlfriend who passed was Brandy Hawkins...
They where on their way home from Billiard Street Cafe and Brandon had just bought his bike that day so they where out cruising... well they pulled out of billiars and made a right towards the parkway on University Dr. When They stoped at the redlight at Palaskie Pike a chevy colorado rearended them doing 65 and never hit the brakes. The guy that hit them was on several prescription druggs and was messed up out of his mind. the bike was implanted into the front of the truck all the way to the gas tank standing straight up just like it was on impact. It threw Brandon into the bed or the truck that hit him and Brandy forward.. I got there about 5 min after it happend I have never seen anything more terrible in my life..... And I pray that I never will again.
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Old April 17th   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangcorral
I must admit that this thread has turned into a very interesting series of posts in which underlying emotions and misconceptions have been aired. If anyone should think there was cause for anything other than what is turning out to be different views and opinions then please hold that thought.

Let me say that after reading your post I have a better understanding of why those actions were taken by your club members. I also must say that observing non-registerd vehicles parked in the display area gave me concern about participants bypassing the entire registration process, hence the term "Registration". It should have been at that point where this issue was addressed and resolved. From what I have read in earlier posts, it is the intention of some clubs to want to park together for shows as this is their way to show support for the cause. Had this been a Cruise-In or a Rally, or anything other than a "judged by class Car Show" I could understand that everyone wants to be with their club members, parked together. Or for example, in a show where awards are presented to the top five, or ten, or twenty vehicles. In those cases, it doesn't matter where you are parked or grouped.

By definition, a car show delineating classes should indicate that your vehicle will be parked within a particluar class section and judged accordingly. Registration means just that, to register. But I think a better way to look at this, would be to take the example to extremes. If 100 cars arrive for a show, and 95 pay, then it isn't the end of the world if five of them somehow bypassed registration and parked, even out of their classes. It is not right, but... However, suppose out of a 100 cars, 95 of them did this under the guise that they were there to support the cause, yet only 5 registered. That would make quite a difference in the ability to raise funds or equipement for a cause.

Regarding the fact that the host club's vehicles were all parked together, that is because they were not entered in judged classes. Each club member paid their full registration money and were rewarded by having to work the show. But that is what we do for this annual event. I believe each did a great job as well as the volunteers we had from other clubs. These jobs were made easy by the fine people we have in the Huntsville Car Clubs. In this particular case, I think much of the assumptions made could have been prevented had your group inquired at the Registration Booth if anything could be done to alleviate your particular financial situation or questions you might have had about not fully understanding how the event was laid out. I know if I don't comprehend something I am not beyond inquiring about the rules, conditions, or if there are alternatives.

You did a great job of defending your club's intentions and expressing how your members perceived their offer of support. I commend you for expressing that as it was the proper thing to do.

Above all else, please don't think even for a minute that your club's members, or any other clubs were unwelcome at this event. I certainly apologize to you and your members if you thought that. We posted this through Huntsville Car Scene in order to reach the maximum number of clubs and their members.

My lesson has been learned. At future events we will address this issue up front. Perhaps there are ways to include more participants from a particular club, acknowledging their combined support effort, or figure out some way to open the gates for other vehicles that are display purpose only, not to be judged. We could have set up such a corral for that, but did not consider it for this event.

I hope my offer of amends is meaningful to you and is taken at my word. I reacted to the situation as I saw it and made a decision based on my observations and information that was passed on to me. I am sorry for any embarrassment caused by me as well as being too poignant in this forum. However, it remains the responsibility of event participants to have an understanding of the ground rules at a event, and if there is doubt, ask the questions. Assuming things is never a good thing.

Good cruising this summer!!
I can appreciate everything that you said, and I certainly have no animosity toward you, or your club. I will be the first to admit that I was thrown for a loop when we were told we’d be parked by classes, and I did assume that everyone traveling in our pack would be able to park – regardless of whether they registered…which is why they wrote “do not judge” on the papers they were given. I had absolutely no clue how the event was to be laid out, and I did assume that it would be like all of the other shows that we attend. In retrospect I probably should have asked for a little more explanation as to why we weren’t able to park together, but I didn’t and had I done that maybe we could have avoided most of the problem and half of this thread. Had I known there was a problem between “showing” and “registering” then I would have talked to whatever official I needed to and we could have come to a resolution, but I was completely unaware that there was a problem, misunderstanding, or otherwise until this afternoon when I read this thread.

I talked to the two guys you were referring to, and they told me that one of the people working the event gave them the papers and told them to write “do not judge” on it and it would be fine for them to park with the club. I’m not trying to lay blame anywhere, and I do see where you’re coming from. I will take heed for future reference. I am also glad you have seen my points as well and hopefully we’ll be able to do it again without a hitch in reference to future shows.

I’m definitely glad we could rectify these issues and I appreciate you being straight forward with me as well. I apologize for any inconveniences our actions may have caused and I am glad we can both see each other’s circumstances a little clearer.
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